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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Hi Folks,
I am new to BAIB, and am planning to purchase this for myself (after Christmas is over just in case someone bought it as a present), and am curious what would be the best MIDI option for me.
I have played the guitar for twenty five years or so, but alas, neurological problems have ended that possibility now. Soooo... I went looking to see what's out there to make music on the PC, and stumbled upon this software. I looks like it will allow me to continue to write music.
What I'm at a loss over is what MIDI source to get. Should I get a hardware device? Or would the Personal Orchestra 4 do the job. I just want to be able to use strings and some symphony instruments in my pieces (flute, piccolo, clarinet, and others).
I tend to do folk, pop, and some lighter rock.
Any suggestions on what would be best?
Thanks,
Charles
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Operating System? 32 bit or 64?
The VSC Dxi syth is pretty good, for free, included, but does not do 64.
our
The options for recording with an external module like the Ketron Sd2 are limited. You have to do the whole song through. Not a problem if you are recording voice, but the render to .wav process is speeded up by Dxi synth no needing to play the file through for example on a good machine a 5 minute song might take about 30 seconds to render to .wav.
Also, I have several options for external synths (3), but I do not hardly use them in favour of RealTracks. That's a consideration. In my opinion, get the software. Tinker. Listen. Evaluate synths, and go from there. Unless you play the violin there are lots of good ones. If Perlman is your best friend and you have all his recordings no violin patch on any synth will please you. If you are like my Mom that cheesy M/S synth she heard on the 'all oldies all the times' just before someguy in a monotone reads the obits for hicksville, is like 'heaven on earth'. Wow.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Hi Charles and welcome to the forum.
While it is nice to have a somewhat better MIDI synth solution than what comes along with BiaB and RC software, you don't have to go out and buy one immediately.
The software comes with two software synths that can get you started out. The older one, the "VSC DXi" synth unfortunately can only work with older 32-bit Operating Systems (XP and before) while there is the newer "Coyote Wavetable" aynth that will work with the newer Vista/Win7 64 bit systems.
These install as options when you run the BiaB Installer File.
My advice to you would be to start out like that, get to know the programs a bit and then you will be much better situated to make the decision on what kind of higher quality MIDI solution you might want to get.
That said, the Ketron SD-2 hardware synth sold on this site is a darn good sounding little box...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
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Thanks John, I appreciate you taking the time to offer advice. I forgot to mention that I'm running an Icore 7 Laptop with 6GB RAM and 64bit Windows 7. I understand what you are saying about using the realtracks, but from what I understand, there are no realtracks for a string section. Hence, I will need to provide it from another source. While I cannot play the keyboard anymore, I can use it to record the correct sequence of notes, and go back and ajust duration and such within the measures using a neat little thing called video mouse (it allows you to control your mouse with your head)  . Mac, again thanks for reaponding. I've looked at the SD2 and liked some of the sounds it offers, but in my opinion, the flute is just a bit too airy. The one I heard in Personal Orchestra is beautiful. If you're trying to do a celtic type of sound, the SD2 wouldn't quite fit in IMHO. Now that I think about it, there seemed to be a celtic style just introduced. Did that have a flute in realtrack form? I listened to so many of the demos that I have lost track of what's there, LOL. Another question. While I played the twelve string for years (an ardent flatpicker here), the only reason I learned to do so is my first love is singing. I noticed that PG has the TC Helicon VoiceLive on the hardware page, but I assume it's the VoiceLive2 because the price is exactly the same as the VL2. That seems to be an incredible device for vocals and would be a good buy for what it offers. Having more control over my feet than hands, it would also be easier for me to manage. Does anyone have experience with this device? I know that there was some question about delay to the monitors that could cause issues while recording. Let me clarify that I have the opportunity now to aquire these things, and probably won't again in the future. This is why I want to figure out what is best for what I want to do, and get what fits my needs while the resources are available. Thanks, Charles
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,143
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Charles, The "wizard" check box in Biab will allow you to use your qwerty keyboard to record notes in real time into Biab's melody channel. The wizard will play notes within the key and chord sequence of your chord layout in Biab. Note: if using a DXi synth, it is best to run in ASIO driver mode for the latency gap. Once you have "tapped" the qwerty notes in, you can open the piano roll and move them to their correct note value. The wizard allows the timing to be precise and then a simple drag in piano roll will have your melody spot-on. Once you have done this a couple of times, you will be knocking out melodies in no time. I use a hardware midi synth here, Yamaha Tyros. I prefer a hardware synth vs a software one here. Welcome to the forum and Biab software club  Trax
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7
Newbie
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OP
Newbie
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Thanks Trax! I did not know about that feature. I really appreciate the help!
Charles
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693
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Quote:
I've looked at the SD2 and liked some of the sounds it offers, but in my opinion, the flute is just a bit too airy. The one I heard in Personal Orchestra is beautiful. If you're trying to do a celtic type of sound, the SD2 wouldn't quite fit in IMHO.
Charles, if you're going to be this precise and picky you're crusin' for a brusin' when it comes to working with computer based music. You're going to need a whole rack full of very expensive stuff to be fully satisfied. Now, this is fine, pro musicians do that all the time, they've got good ears, they know what they want and are willing to do whatever it takes to get it. All I'm saying is be prepared to spend some serious cash. That Tyros just mentioned costs upwards of $4,000 if it's the new model. The Ketron costs $400. GPO is $3-400 or so but it won't have everything you want for sound, you will be looking for other synths to go along with it. It will add up fast.
I think but of course I'm not sure, you are not familiar with General Midi and how that factors into this. GM is a standard that allows a user to simply plug in a synth or use a software synth-softsynth-and simply hit play and listen to the tune. The problem is GM is very limited. GPO for example is not GM because all those killer sounds do not comform to the GM standard. Garritan uses it's own player as a plug in. That's another whole thing you have to learn. That means you have to set up and configure each instrument for each song you want to play before you hear anything. Biab only has one midi output port so you can only use one synth at a time but of course there's workarounds for that that the pros use. There's addon software you can buy that allows Biab to work with a whole rack of softsynths. Another whole geek level course in midi. That is inconvienent, time consuming and requires knowledge but you will get great sound that way.
The point here is GM is simple, fast and you can listen to a whole list of songs one after the other with no input from you once you have everything set up. The problem is there's only a handful of GM synths that sound good. When we talk about the VSC, the Coyote Wavetable, the Ketron, those are all GM synths. The VSC and Wavetable sound like crap imho but they're enough to get you started. What I'm talking about is way more complex than that.
If you're going to be that picky about your sound quality be prepared for a long and expensive process to get all the pieces together and also be prepared to spend a consderable amount of time learning it. Most of us came to realize all that is just not worth it for a hobby and we became willing to compromise. The Ketron, the Roland Sonic Cell or SD-50, Sampletank with the GM Omnisynth, a few others are good GM compromises for the money.
Just a little heads up.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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There are other flutes on Upper Banks of the SD2 that are not so airy sounding, as well.
Likely evaluating the sound of only the GM bank here, not realizing that.
However, being an avid owner/user of SD2 for quite some time now, I would have to say that its sounds are geared more towards more modern music genres than the standard modern classical or orchestral sound.
The "right" instrument sound from *any* MIDI synth or sampler, hardware or software, is a very subjective thing, as it turns out. NONE are correct, actually, as none can be, due to technical limitations within the MIDI standard.
Looking back on more than twenty years of working with MIDI devices of all kinds in the studio, there are two issues that I've noticed:
*Any MIDI synth solution can start to sound better to us over time and use. This is because of the marvelous filter tha exists between the ears, I think. It is also a factor to guard against somewhat, if you are involved in making product - We must remember that other ears are not likely to have familiarized with the sound of the chosen patch.
*NONE of them can sound like the actual instrument really sounds. I like to keep in mind that the use of MIDI can only create an *approximation* of the real instrument and that we, as MIDIOTS, must strive to create the *ILLUSION* of live players when using MIDI.
Those are my two basic ground rules and time and experience have shown me that attem;pts to break them can only yield frustration. So instead of trying to force these tools to do it all, or continuing the search for the nonexistant "perfect" sounding MIDI solution(s), which are not very likely to happen given the lack of parameters in the MIDI standard, my goal is to work with what the thing *CAN* do that is as close to being acceptable as possible.
If you absolutely must have your production sound like real live trained musicians are playing - you must still hire real live trained musicians.
That said, the advent of pgmusic RealTracks and RealDrums can go a long way towards helping you create illusions. When these tools were first introduced, during the first beta test of the Real instruments, many of us commented on how well the addition of even one RealInstrument somehow made the sound of the MIDI patches sound more believable. That's a plus.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2003
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Amen to Mac's comments.
Plus in my experience, you play the piece with the 'too airy' flute to a non flute player, and to a non musician and you'll get good reactions.
But:
To the trombone player the trombone patches are bad.
To the oboe player the oboes suck.
To the piano player the thing is wrong, dead wrong.
To the graduate of a 4 year Honours Music program almost all the orchestral instruments are just garbage. (My wife speaking there.)
To the guitar player they want a whaa whaa pedal effect on a tube amp with different gauge strings and a drop x tuning with a slight stairwell reverb played like Santana on the recording of..well you get my drift.
At the end of the day, standard GM sounds, even from an 8000 dollar synth are, what they are.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 618 |
Hi Trax,
I'm trying to use the qwerty. That's a very cool feature.
Does it only work with ASIO? I'm using MME.
Wayne,
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
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- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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