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I'm entering in chords (in Cm) such as Cb7 and BIAB gives me B7. I don't want B7 I want Cb7 for several reasons.
I enter in Gm7 Gm7/F# and am given Gm7 Gm7/Gb.
Who's in charge here ... me or BIAB? How can I achieve what I want?
Thanks, DH
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Check Opts Prefs...I forget which heading (chords?) it's set relative to the key it's in.
I have had times when I print out a lead sheet and my wife whites out the chord symbol and changes it.
OTH, I had a 20 minute grumble moment with my electronic tuner. I was tuning a double bell euphonium I was to play for a concert and the darn tuner kept showing A# when I knew I wanted a Bflat. The the light bulb went on. Same note. I do have leadsheets with pencil marks on them. Breath marks, expressions, grace notes...I doubt anyone playing seriously always has a totally clean sheet. I end up with big circles around key changes, coloured high lighters over odd accidentals..it's all in the game.
That might make a good tune..It's all in the game...hmm.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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For my money, if something's in Eb major a bVI chord would be Cb and not B. The ears won't hear any difference but when transposing that to other keys, you might get strange results. (I transposed the piece from C minor to Eb major and there were absolutely no changes made to my notation.) Also, a Gm chord with a chromatic descending bass line calls for an F#. I realize if I were simply notating a melodic line for someone to read, a chromatically descending line might read G, Gb, F, E but in chord notation, Gm Gm\F# Gm\F etc. is easier on the eyes (and the brain).  I'll take a look in Options but I'm not holding my breath.
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Quote:
That might make a good tune..It's all in the game...hmm.
Sorry, John, I think that one's already been done.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I think John was referring to the ...hmmm
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This is interesting - I wrote in C major C Ab7 ... Em Em/D# and the program put on the screen exactly what I wrote. When I transpose that to Eb major, the Ab7 (a bVI7 in C major) becomes B7 instead of Cb7 ... and the Em\D# becomes Gm\Gb and not Gm\F#.
Am I assuming no one before me has, for lack of a better word, complained?
Unless I'm overlooking an option setting, there's no workaround?
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This horse has been flogged so much it has scars. Peter Gannon has explained it, and we've had work arounds, however with music as math, and a computer based formulae, it makes sense.
All kinds of people who are new to the software get full of agnst over it. I play in a Brass Band and the notation we are given, often done at the turn of the century before the last, ie around 1890 to 1910 has some weird stuff in it. We get photocopies of the piece so I use markers, white out and pencils. It is what it is.
I'll get the cane and go to the computer downstairs (this one is linux and does not have the box band on it, and pen an answer of sorts and see if I can find an old thread on chords.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Can you overwrite the chord with what you want it to be?
I do remember at one time that BIAB didn't really like Cb (or Fb) and generally substituted B and E. I thought that was fixed, but maybe it was in a different context. Don't know about the D# becoming Gb, however.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I use Sibelius (an older version) and I have the option to change notes, chords, whatever that have been transposed but don't look right (or are right). I highlight the item in question and use a simple keyboard command. (It's been a while since I've used Sibelius but it is easy to do.)
This horse has been flogged so much it has scars. Peter Gannon has explained it, and we've had work arounds, however with music as math, and a computer based formulae, it makes sense.
All kinds of people who are new to the software get full of agnst over it.
My ten year old version of Sibelius handles this without problems.
I to bVI in C: C Ab7 ...
or F: F Db7 ...
or Eb: Eb Cb7. Now if someone doesn't like Eb to Cb7, that's fine. Eb to Cb is correct whether or not anyone likes it. I should be allowed to override that B since it is a faulty transposition.
Eb B is jarring to me. (Gm Gm\F# looks better than Gm Gm\Gb as well.)
At any rate, is this something I have to live with in 2011? Is there an option I'm overlooking? Is there a workaround?
Thanks! DH
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Quote:
Can you overwrite the chord with what you want it to be?
I do remember at one time that BIAB didn't really like Cb (or Fb) and generally substituted B and E. I thought that was fixed, but maybe it was in a different context. Don't know about the D# becoming Gb, however.
Unless there's an option I have overlooked, the program does not let me enter a Cb chord. I type in Cb7 and I see B7 on screen.
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Under Prefs Notation, a box is the to use the chord scale for enharmonics. If you search the term you find out that almost all software has some version of this issue when it comes to music. Is it a C# chord or a Dflat chord. Depends on the context. I don't know the programming language involved but of course depending on the way you write the software this may always be an issue if you want to transpose. As stated, a quick workaround with paper is to modify it yourself.
From a programming perspective I'd think the option to freeze the entire arrangement with the chords they way you want them, or to have an alternative box and have the software print the default unless the alternate spelling is (true ie. something in the field) then it might solve what for a very few people is an issue. My wife gets out of shape over it, I on the other hand can deal with a C# chord or a Db chord in the same manner as I see it coming and know where on the piano I want to go.
Same on the accordion.
But on a wind instrument, or brass instrument I don't look at the chords very often, I'm playing either melody or harmony and trying to concentrate.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I'm not at my music machine, so I would have to take a look later to see if it can be done.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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If you open the Notation Window and click the [N] button one time to get into editable notation mode, then right-click on the note that you want to change to bring up the 'Note Edit' dialog. This dialog allows you to edit specific parameters of any note, such as the time it begins, the duration, pitch, and volume (velocity). You can also use the 'Force Accidental' menu to select if you want the note to be displayed as a sharp or flat.
The main things that determine which accidental is used for any note are: The key of the song, the chord being played at that time, and whether you have 'Use chord scale for enharmonics' enabled or disabled in the Notation Window Options dialog.
The paragraphs above are from the FAQ's. To find stuff on the website and in the FAQ's quickly go to the search function at the top of the page. I think the fact the forum and website changed recently contributes to my not being able to find things that were previously searched and indexed by google.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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John, I appreciate the information but unless I'm not understanding something, it doesn't work. I entered the Notation mode, clicked N, Edit current chord (or something like that), a small window opens up and I type Cb7 into it and I still see B7 on screen.
In addition, when I open Chord Builder, there's no possibility for a chord with a Cb root.
It's OK if I can't figure this out now, but is it possible to have a Cb7 chord in Eb major (or for that matter, any key) in BIAB?
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I think it's that BIAB just can't handle seven flats. I know it has been discussed before, and probably PG or one of his folks will have to answer, but I don't believe that C-flat is supported in the chord grid. I believe you can change notes in notation to show it, but the notation page and the chord grid interact differently. This is something you may just have to live with for now. Hit the wish list to request a change.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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In that I'm just a newbie to music, started in about 1958, and I've never seen music in 7 flats I have to wonder what the heck the problem is. I can see having an issue with an Eflat being entered but notated as D# however really there is no difference between Cb and B. None. And in the one in a million times it's going to come up use whiteout if it really drives you nuts. I just ran through an exercise playing several pieces I know by ear and can play anywhere, and as far as my fingers on the piano are concerned I'm playing in B.
All the double flatting would drive anyone to drink too. It's ok for a chord or two but really I wouldn't do anyone the dis-service of writing a piece in that key if it was my favorite.
Minds me of the huge arguments that ensued when the Highland Pipes would show up and the band would try and tune with them. Gets worse with the reconciling the C and Bflat and Eflat instruments and the odd ball keys we would end up with. Band director to me...you'd know what note is that..almost A# so...lol..and the stubborn scotsman say's I'm in perrrrfect forrrrm ...(roll my eyes) ..so let's try Amazing Grace in Bflat....close ...not.
I bet this will be the first request for the inclusion of Cb as a play along key....I prefer B# you c.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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