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OP
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Hi all,
My computer crashed some time ago. I got a new one, but did not reinstall BIAB for a while. Recently reinstalled and have started using it again. I have BIAB 2007 Megapak. I'm on a Windows 7 machine. I was also running it just fine on a Windows 7 machine before the crash, so I don't think the problem I'm encountering is due to the Windows 7--I think there must be some setting that's not right.
Here's what's going on...I've opened an arrangement I did of "Didn't We." I use it w/out melody so I can solo along with it as backing. It worked great before the crash. Now when I play it, the first time I go all the way through (3 choruses), it works perfectly. But the next time I play it, all I get is Strings and Bass. The drums, piano, and guitar are gone! The only way I can get it back is to shut down BIAB completely, then reopen it and reopen the song. Is there some setting that's defaulting incorrectly?
Thanks for any help.
Vince
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Hi Vince,
When you first open the file, save it as a new name. Now restart BIAB and load in the newer, saved version of the song and see if the fault continues.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi Noel
Thanks. I just tried this and it doesn't work. The problem is occuring with everything.
It's very odd. After the first run of it, which is fine, when I press play again, most instruments drop out. And instead of the click of 4 drum sticks to start, I get a piano that plays one note...very weird. Because it is so consistent, I feel that it's in a setting somewhere. But even when I return BIAB to factory settings, it seems to persist.
Any other ideas? Could I send you a copy of the file for this tune and see if it happens on your machine?
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If you have windows7 64 bit you need to install a different midi device. The Roland VSC is old technology and won't work. Go to Opts Prefs Midi and tell us what it says.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Hi Vince, Quote:
Any other ideas? Could I send you a copy of the file for this tune and see if it happens on your machine?
When you play the song a second time, to you use the "Generate" button or the "Replay" button. Also, try double-clicking on bar to see if the replay via this method is affected.
Please feel free to send me a copy of the file. My email address is nadams96(at)gmail.com. Simply replace the (at) with @.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi,
@Noel, thanks; I've sent you the file.
@John--I have three different Midi buttons to choose from under Options, Pref: Midi File; Midi Drive; and Midi options. Which one will help answer. Remember, it does play correctly the first time through so I'm not sure how the midi options would affect it, but I don't really understand how the midi thing works.
I don't seem to have a "generate" button on my version (2007) but I think this is the same as the "play" button on my version. The problem occurs whether I use the play button or the replay button. First time I play the backup after opening BIAB it works perfectly for the 3 choruses I've set up. it reaches the end, and whether I hit Play or Replace, half the instruments drop out. Does this when I rename the file, too. And it seems to do it with other files, though I've only checked a few.
Thanks very much to both of you for responding. I haven't posted here for a while but I'm determined to get my BIAB chops up.
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Do you have, "Use DXi" checked in the MIDI device window, underneath the
RH side output window that shows the older kind of MIDI synths?
--Mac
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Hi Vince,
The .MGX file arrived and I've had a play around with it.
As you say, it plays through perfectly and then on replay, the volume is lost. If, however, I double-click on bar 53 to start the song from there, the volume is back normal.
The fade-out you have happening from bars 53 - 63 reduces the volume/expression to zero. When the file is replayed, it seems that these controls (volume & expression) are not being reset to their initial values and so the song replays with zero volume.
If I reload the song (without shutting down BIAB), everything is fine again.
I'm not familiar enough with BIAB and MIDI to know how to get BIAB to reset MIDI controllers back to default values when the song is played. I'll do a little bit of homework but, if I post this information while I'm looking for a solution, maybe someone more knowledgeable with MIDI like Mac, Matt, Silvertones or rharv (to name just a few) might jump in with some thoughts.
I suspect that the other songs that are creating this volume problem for you also have fade-out endings.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Rightclick on bar 1 (or whatever bar is the actual beginning of the song) and use the same settings window as for the fadeout to invoke a Normal volume command for all tracks at the beginning of the song.
Our poor MIDI synths are State Machines and will stay in whatever state they were last told to be in, in this case, Vol turned down.
There really should be an automated situation where the synth is told to go back to its "normal" settings after a fadeout, I'll have to check BiaB and fadeouts here to see what is gong on but the above should solve the issue for this songfile.
This might also be addressed by sending the standard MIDI Reset command of CC123 at the end of a fadeout, too. Or at the beginning of the songfile. I would prefer if whatever command used were placed at the end of fadeout routine, that way the synth is "back to ground zero" at any time after the fadeout is issued.
Not sure if this is a bug at this point in time, it might simply be one corrupted songfile or something of that nature. Noel, check the Ending bar designation against the MIDI Monitor, looking for an event that might be happening after that bar.
--Mac
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On mine at least there is a resetting after a fade out done either with bar settings or the song settings.The midi monitor verifies this. I set it to filter and show only CC#7. Each time play or replay is pressed it sends out the initial volume settings. A funny thing however is if I set the bars to "loop" the midi monitor doesn't show the sending of CC#7 however it still resets.
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Thanks, guys. This is fine and respectful forum. I am swamped today and tomorrow but will experiment with the fixes Sunday and report back.Just wanted you to know I appreciated your ideas. And I'm relieved to learn that the problem duplicated on another's computer. It is weird as i had a 64 bit before the crash (as I have now) and did not have this problem--why I think the settings have changed somewhere. Will keep exploring.
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I can't make it not work.Hard to troubleshoot 2007 though with 2011.I can set the song to loop and the midi monitor never records any thing even though things get reset.This fade thing is not a normal MIDI thing as it also affects RTs.Also the fades would carry over into RB & they don't.
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Vince, Below are graphics showing the MIDI information at the: (a) start of the song; (b) the bar where the fade-in starts; (c) the end of the song.  Fig 1: The beginning of the MGX file Fig 2: First bar of fade-out section Fig 3: The end of the songIn Fig 2, it's possible to see that the volumes are set and then the expression controller is used to lower these volumes gradually. (The following MIDI channels have their volume set to 90: 3 = Piano, 7 = Guitar, 6 = Strings, 2 = Bass, 10 = Drums, 4 = Melody, 8 = Soloist, 5 = Thru Channel.) Fig 3 shows that the expression controller has reduced the volumes completely. Interestingly, a couple of MIDI channels (6 = Strings, 4 = Melody) have their volume increased again right at the end of the song. This is easy to hear if you let the song play to the finish. In Fig 1 shows that the volume controller is used to set volumes for the appropriate channels at the start the song but, for some reason, these do not seem to override the final expression settings at the end of the song. he Volume Spinners show that all tracks volumes are set to 90 but only the Bass, Guitar and Strings can be heard. I have no idea why this is the case because exactly the same volume settings are added at bar 53, the first bar of the fade-out (Fig 2), and they do their job properly at bar 53. It also seems curious to me that a "regenerate" does not reset the volumes. I'm posting these pictures in the hope that MIDI gurus can help out. Mac: I set the volume for Bar 1 "Back to normal" in song settings but it had no impact. I wasn't sure how to add a CC 123, reset, command to the song file so have not tried that.Regards, Noel P.S. Vince, if you double-click on bar 53 and then stop stop playback, you can replay the song from the start with all MIDI volumes working properly.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel,
I do not get the second & third screen that you do yet the fades work properly & things get reset. You are using the OP song file right? That's the clue. How did he do the fades in the first place?It looks like they were done manually vs using the fade feature. In that case you would have to manually reset things.I'm thinking maybe a bug or something similar in 2007? He said it worked before but based on what you're showing I don't see how it could.
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The file invokes CC11's that it never fully cancels out.
The start of file sets a different MIDI parameter than the fadeout uses.
Start of file uses Volume CC7 and sets those to 90.
But the fadeout is using Expression command CC11 -- and that does not get reset at start of file.
Manually entering CC11 values of 127 at the start of the file should force the MIDI synth to reset when the song is started or restarted.
CC11 Expression
While CC7 controls the overall MIDI volume, view it to be much like what a Master Fader (Output) on an audio mixer does.
CC11, on the other hand, is acting like one of the separate channel faders on that mixer.
In other words, whehn CC7 is set to 90, then CC11 commands can be set anywhere from 1 to 127 but that range can go no louder than the CC7 setting, which is 90.
Don't know why the program didn't reset all the CC11 values at the end of the song, perhaps there was some user editing that changed the songfile barlength or the like at some point and the rest of 'em got chopped off, or perhaps something just went bump in the night. Either wsy I sould expect the Reset to be a value of 127 for the CC11's or if not, at least the SAME high value.
It would only be considered a bona fida program bug if the problem is reproducible with a New songfile or two, on different machines, I think.
--Mac
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Mac,
What I'm saying is that when I created a 12 bar tune used the fade feature in song settings or the fade feature in F5 while watching the midi monitor for just CC7 & CC11 when the song hits the fade nothing registers on the midi monitor at all however the song fades.When the song starts again, I have loop enabled, nothing shows on the midi monitor either. The only thing that will show is CC#7 if I stop and then restart the song. Also if I save the song and bring it over to RB the fades do not happen. I would like to get this file and see.
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I also just connected BIAB to MidiOx via MidiYoke and the same results. The only data being sent out is CC#7 when play button is first hit.It'll take Peter or Andrew to explain how this fade is working.
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Silvertones, Quote:
What I'm saying is that when I created a 12 bar tune used the fade feature in song settings or the fade feature in F5 while watching the midi monitor for just CC7 & CC11 when the song hits the fade nothing registers on the midi monitor at all however the song fades.
I just discovered that too. I typed in some of Vince's chords and set-up a fade. Everything worked fine except there were no CC7 or CC11 events listed in the MIDI monitor.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Vince, I have discovered that if you re-enter your chords and do a new fade-out ending in BIAB 2011, everything seems ok. I opened two instances of BIAB and in one of them, I opened your song. Then I performed the following ... - Use your song to "Make a standard MIDI File" under the file menu. AS the destination of the file, I chose "Clipboard".
- I went to the second instance of BIAB.
- Under the "File" menu, I chose "Open Special | Import Chords From PG Music File On Clipboard".
- The chords were imported as a single chorus.
- Under "Edit", I then chose to "Fold (convert 1 chorus to multiple)" the song. The menu that pops up when you choose this also allows a TAG ending to be created.
- Once you have successfully done this, you will need to create a new fade-out ending. (I also suggest that you turn off the "2 bar ending" under "Song Settings".
While the above doesn't explain the behavior of BIAB, it might be a way around it at the moment. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Quote:
Silvertones,
Quote:
What I'm saying is that when I created a 12 bar tune used the fade feature in song settings or the fade feature in F5 while watching the midi monitor for just CC7 & CC11 when the song hits the fade nothing registers on the midi monitor at all however the song fades.
I just discovered that too. I typed in some of Vince's chords and set-up a fade. Everything worked fine except there were no CC7 or CC11 events listed in the MIDI monitor.
Regards,
Noel
Ditto! There's something amiss with his files and the way he did them. That or 2007 is got issues or a combination of the 2.
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