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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 49
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 49 |
Hi,
I know this is not the solution we are looking for; however, the quickest way I have found to find that "perfect" part is to use the Audition button in the Stylepicker window.
I believe you can mute parts before going into Stylepicker (I don't have access to my BIAB right now so cannot verify this).
With this work around I can generally move fairly quickly through styles and then create my hybrid.
Hope this helps while we await the solution from PG.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,471
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Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,594
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,594 |
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
THANKS - YOUR EXAMPLE NAILS DOWN THE PROBLEM VERY ACCURATELY.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,323 |
Take also in consideration that the new stylepicker don't include the user styles or 3rd party styles. that is a pity, because user styles are created to add sepcific styles or patterns not present in BIAB styles. I have issued a post in the wihslist forum some weeks ago to ask for a stylepikcer that would include ALL the styles present in BIAB directory, that is BIAB styles plus 3rd party styles.
Reach for excellence
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 716 |
I have been using BIAB for well over ten years and still use it for it's original purpose - to provide a quick and easy accompaniment for my keyboard playing. I have very little musical knowledge and quite frankly not a lot of creativity and the beauty of BIAB is that you don't need much of either because the basic MIDI styles have always given me what I needed. I don't have the necessary skill or desire to get into the style maker or into Realband - there must be hundreds of users like me.
When RDs came along it was a simple extra that gave an option that added to the overall sound and more importantly was a simple substitution within the basic MIDI style. When RTs came along things started to change and the program started to concentrate on a more professional kind of user. It took me a while to realize that the Realstyles weren't of much use to me because most of them were fairly boring styles with the addition of a solo. Even the improvement in sound didn't really excite me as I am perfectly happy with the sound from my SD50 synth. I would much rather have more choice of exciting ready made styles than have to cope with the complexity of building my own styles from the different RTs. I have learned to cope with the problems of needing a better computer, RT load time and the need to freeze everything. But for me to really use RTs I need 5 instrument Realstyles without solos, (I will add my own) that are as varied as MIDI styles.
Don't get me wrong, I am full of admiration for those profesionals who can produce wonderful results with BIAB, Realband and other DAWs and PG must cater to these users but it's just that PG shouldn't lose sight of their roots and need to keep an eye on the MIDI crowd and users like me. Recently I have turned to Bob Norton's styles as a way of keeping things fresh.
Regards
Tony
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,471
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Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 6,471 |
I must respectfully disagree.
Professional musicians generally prefer the MIDI tracks. Why? Many reasons, but mostly because they are editable.
It's impractical to impossible to edit a real track, change a note, get rid of something that might conflict with the melody, add a song-specific part and change anything in the RT that conflicts with that part, refine kicks/licks etc.
Most professional musicians have good synthesizers, instead of the cheesy sounds on the 99 cent synth chip on the computer's sound card.
Pros know that to the audience, expression, the parts, the song itself is much more important than the finer points of tone.
From the feedback I get on my site, the professionals overwhelming prefer the MIDI styles.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,608
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Posts: 2,608 |
I think we've had this conversation before. I'm a jazz pianist, been using BIAB since 1995. I don't do "cover" music, which MIDI is well suited for. There must be many thousands like me who were ecstatic when RD and RT came out. When you do A-B comparisons, the choice is clear for those whose main musical thing is improvising. Just my side of this thread. Later, Ray
P.S. I'm a "professional" also.
Last edited by raymb1; 05/11/11 05:56 AM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I'm an amateur who doesn't understand the either/or exclusivity of this thing.
So I use what does the job at hand best and have fun.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>>> It's impractical to impossible to edit a real track, change a note, get rid of something that might conflict with the melody, add a song-specific part and change anything in the RT that conflicts with that part, refine kicks/licks etc. Hi Bob, You ** can ** replace BB generated parts (RealTracks or MIDI ) with song specific parts, using the standard MIDI synth that comes with BB. There is a video and audio demoing this in the Tips and Tricks section here http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=316518&an=0&page=0#Post316518
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 182 |
Like Mac I am another amateur - I would like to see both expanded and improved. When I do a new tune I look at all possibilities from BIAB and Midi and try to use the best for each step or part. I mix and match midi, real tracks and BIAB tracks plus live audio to produce the best final result. In general RTs are good for many jazz tunes (I am primarily a jazz guitarist)and midi or BIAB are best for pop rock but I find many exceptions. I recently did some country tunes and found that RTs for country are fantastic. As a along term user I hope that MIDI and RTs receive near equal attention for future development. A real good style part picker for both would top my list. If you are exclusive to either you are not getting your money's worth.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Quote:
Like Mac I am another amateur
Mac has his tongue firmly planted in his cheek, he is far from an amateur. 31,894 posts is your first clue.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,026
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,026 |
Why not teach us how to make RTracks for use in BIAB, from what I've heard here ,PG users have some pretty good chops. I love the edit-ability of midi and I have tons of software synths to get the sounds needed ,but nothing sounds like a real instrument except a real instrument.(Sorry Bob I disagree with you on that) Every one who has heard my newest RT based tunes said they were glad I dumped the midi crap and used a real band . That'll be my little secret .
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
Quote:
"I dumped the midi crap and used a real band."
Andere Freude fũr andere Leute.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,285
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,285 |
I’m finding this tread very interesting as many of us are either anti-midi or anti-RTs/RDs. I, like Mac and some others, use whatever sounds the best for the song I’m working on. However I seem to be 180 degrees out of phase with many!
Let me explain. I use mostly midi for my original music. The ratio is about 90 percent midi and 10% RTs. I very rarely use RDs on my originals. I can manipulate midi parts far more easily than I can RTs. I also have some very good sounding sound sources. Sound sources, I believe is the secret for midi. If you are using an inexpensive GM or MS midi sound source than RTs will always sound better no matter how much midi tweaking you do! With good sound sources there is not that much difference. However they do cost a lot of money.
Now I use mostly RTs/RDs with covers! Note that I do not believe in doing covers exactly like the original. If I did that then why would anyone listen to me when they can play the record/CD. I have a couple of clients who love singing old country standards for their friends and families. RTs/RDs are a God sent! I no longer have to generate/play midi parts anymore. I just use RTs/RDs and I can produce a pro quality song in minutes. They are extremely happy with the results, as am I. Note that I would love to send up an example however I respect the forum’s no cover song rule.
So the bottom line is use whatever works best for you but don’t put down the other side! Midi, RTs, and RDs should work side by side and neither is always perfect or always not perfect.
Just my two cents.
Principal: Your child always causes trouble in school.
Me: My child causes trouble at home, do I ever call you?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I am indeed an amateur. Problem here is that people have redefined for themselves what the word means. "Amateur" -- From the French, meaning literally "love of the craft". "Professional" -- From Latin and possibly Greek roots, one meaning of which is merely someone who got paid to do the job over a period of time. For my trety on the subject, taken from an Audiominds post and into posterity by another member, visit the link below and read the rant. "What's an Amateur?" --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,805
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 12,805 |
I love having both MIDI and RealTracks/RealDrums available to me. It makes for a much more complete toolbox with which to craft music. Why limit yourself to only one or the other?
Since RealTracks can't follow notation, then I must rely on MIDI to render specific phrases; however, RealTracks give me some very interesting accompaniment. I know some people have complained that things start repeating (soundwise) after awhile, but remember RealTracks are still pretty new. Several years down the road, once we have tens of thousands of RealTracks to choose from, there will be plenty to keep it interesting.
I know people who play specific instruments will always complain that the rendition just isn't right. That's great if you're playing for other musicians. I'm in the camp, however, that finds if the audience enjoys the music, they don't really care about technical possibilities. I've never heard anyone ever say, "Wow...that sounded really cool, but you can't really do that on [insert instrument here], so I guess I can't like it."
RealTracks give me cool solo lines, but so does the BIAB soloist and melodist. Whatever works! I also find on some songs I use RealDrums, on others, I still use MIDI. And sometimes, I augment the RealDrums with MIDI percussion instruments.
That being said, I would like to see additional MIDI styles. What would really be cool would be if PGMusic provided a "style converter" that took Yamaha styles, Korg styles, Casio styles, Kurzweil styles, etc into BIAB styles. I have tons of downloaded styles that are just begging to be "BIAB-ified". Obviously, you're not going to get all the nuances that those instruments provide within their sound engines, but just getting the notes and riffs in place is a good start. I'm sure there are copyright issues, but license fees can overcome that.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 716 |
Quote:
That being said, I would like to see additional MIDI styles
That's my point exactly.
It's not a question of MIDI vs RD/RT, just keep the right balance between the two by issuing more MIDI styles. There are so many already that it might take some effort to come up styles that are original and fresh.
Also why are so many of the styles with RTs just a simple style with a track devoted to a solo RT? There seem to be far more interesting all MIDI styles.
Tony
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