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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16 |
I have BIAB 2010.5 and am frustrated trying to move some simple gospel lead sheets from Sibelius 6.2 to BIAB.
For whatever reason, it seems that any score exported by Sibelius or ProTools (9.x) either do not export the chords/key signature at all or do so in a manner that BIAB sez it cannot process, so everything seems to be transposed to G. So I transpose the original score to G, export to MIDI and still the MIDI Import Chords does not match the designated chords with the melody line.
I think I could get some good value from my volunteer efforts to help others but it's far too painful (time/energy-wise!) to have to invariably modify the chord chart for any melody that I have already created in Sibelius.
I'd be grateful for any tips/ideas on how to resolve the dilemma. I've seen some posts that say "...ensure that your export has it (key signature)...", but neither ProTools nor Sibelius have much in the way of options for export other than single or multi-track.
Please post or email me if you can help.
TIA.
Dave Nuttall
San Antonio, TX
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Joined: May 2000
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Unfortunately for us, and doggone is it frustrating, there isn't any part of the MIDI standard that deals with Chord data. There are a few different programs that do chords and each one seems to use their own proprietarty system for the Chords. Boo.
BiaB does not "import" chords from MIDI files, it uses an algorithm to *derive* the chords in a MIDI file by analyzing the notes in the MIDI data. BUT - files that have more than just accompaniment and Melody can yield some strange results after the analyzation because the algorithm does not know what are leading tones, passing tones, whether or not the part is played ahead of or behind the beat, etc. So all it can do is look at all the notes in a vertical stack at each beat and name the chords to fit.
One way around the above is simple enough, pare out one or two tracks of your MIDI file, such as the Bass and Piano or Bass and a Rhythm Guitar part and then run BB's chord analyzer. Much more likely it will be able to find the actual chords like that. Of course, once you have the chords then you can go ahead and add the other MIDI parts back in.
Another way, since you already have the file in Sibelius, is to print out the chords from Sibelius and then when you open the file in BiaB, simply type those chords into the chord grid. Not all that cumbersome, actually.
For the record, I'm a long term and very happy Sibelius user. What I've told you is from experience, much experience, with both proggies.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479
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Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479 |
Hi Dave. Welcome to the forum.
My experience when importing MIDI to BIAB is that BIAB surmises the key, which you can change (without transposing) as you wish.
I'm not familiar with Sibelius, but I think the actual chord designation from that program will not be part of the MIDI file and so wont make it into BIAB. If that's the case, you will need to type the chords into BIAB, or let BIAB take a shot at divining them. The success of that is dependent on the fullness of the MIDI arrangement and how "standard" the tune is. Sometimes good, sometimes not.
There are others here that use Sibelius and can perhaps speak more authoritatively.
Good luck.
kelso
Dell Desktop XPS 8100 W10 HomePrem/64 / Core i5 760 (quad, 2.8GHz) / 8GB DDR3 / 1 TB SATA / ViewSonic VG2428wm / EMU1616 PCI / Event ASP6 Active Monitors / BIAB 2019 64 bit (609) / Cakewalk
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Let's root for Music XML support, someday.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16
Enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16 |
Thanks to Mac & Kelso - the algorithm for converting what BIAB finds in the Sibelius MIDI is very strange indeed. Sometimes it's a 5th with only a melody line and it seems to read a 3rd lower when you provide a relatively straight-forward treble/bass clef score as in traditional hymns! And then it seems that one dare NOT expect the import will pick up the first note/chord as anything but the start of a measure when it is not written that way in Sibelius. If there was a way to grab the entire notation score in BIAB and move it one or more beats to the left/right, that could solve the problem, but if I'm only allowed to register one criticism/complain, it would be that the notation editor is light-years behind Sibelius. This is almost becoming WORK when this is supposed to be my retirement hobby!!!!! And with regard to: Quote:
Let's root for Music XML support, someday.
Well, OK, but the Sibelius version I have to use can only IMPORT MXML...which it does reasonably well. Perhaps Sibelius 7.x does that, but I have to keep ProTools sync'ed with Sibelius, so not just yet, me thinks.
Thanks again for the advice.
d.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,035
Veteran
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Right, it would have to be supported by both products. I also have Sibelius 6, but the website says version 7 now has "interchangeable" Music XML. I assume that means export as well as import.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 479 |
"If there was a way to grab the entire notation score in BIAB and move it one or more beats to the left/right, that could solve the problem"
I'm not sure what you are importing. Melody track into "Melody" - or two tracks, one to "Melody" and the other to "Soloist" - or more tracks using the "Sequencer"? But, you can select and move notes in the Piano Roll View, a track at a time, by selecting notes, cut, paste. Sometime difficult to get start times exactly where you want them on paste, and I often get double notes (?), but can be done.
The BIAB editors are not richly featured like other DAWs. BIAB does great at things other programs can't imagine. I'll often export to and from Sonar (via MIDI) for editing when needed.
kelso
Dell Desktop XPS 8100 W10 HomePrem/64 / Core i5 760 (quad, 2.8GHz) / 8GB DDR3 / 1 TB SATA / ViewSonic VG2428wm / EMU1616 PCI / Event ASP6 Active Monitors / BIAB 2019 64 bit (609) / Cakewalk
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,119
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Dave, I find I can enter a song into Biab pretty fast now. There are pf, ctrl alt and chord shortcut keys to assist me faster as well. I am usually correcting an imported midi file anyway, so I simply start from scratch with my own edits. You can drag chords and sections in Biab and it will copy and paste them automagically when doing so. That also is a time saver. I would suggest to anyone working with Biab to learn the "hot" key commands and chord entry shortcuts. Once you have those down, entering a song is quick and painless. One last tidbit - When importing a midi file via Biab, you can pre-set the key signature and number of bars you want Biab to use during the deciphering of the midi file. As with anything, it takes a little practice, trial and error and elbow grease to "get there," but well worth it once the learning curve is found  Trax
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