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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 85
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Hi all - hope someone can answer a couple of queries.
I dabbled with BIAB when I first got it about 9 months ago, but didnt make much progress. Its obvious BIAB is musically excellent, but I find the interface very unintuitive and dont have too much time spare.
Anyhow, I'm having another go, and downloaded some new Real Tracks - 127 Jazz Funk, that being my "thing"
I can see the little fellows in there, cos when I go to the Realtracks icon they are listed - but I cant persuade them to come out to play.
TBH, I simply dont get the relationship between Styles, Midi styles, Real styles, Songs, Tracks, and Real Tracks. What I need is probably an overview of how to use the whole product - but the help pages dive into so much detail without giving the real basics. If you grown up with the product since its inception I guess its obvious, but for a newbie its too much.
So far have figured out I can load a style, and then set the chords of my choosing. Or, when loading the style, I can load a demo song, which gives some preset chord changes - and subsequently I can alter these.
But I dont understand which real tracks these styles are using. When highlighting one style for example, the right hand info window shows: RT404: Sax, Tenor, HipHop Rock Sw 100, Jack Stafford. Is this Real Track 404? I only have RTs up to 127, so this doesnt make sense.
I assumed the style would determine the Tracks/Realtracks. So I tried loading a style, with demo song, and then going to Styles menu to edit this style. But this only seems to alter the pattern of the music, not the indivual tracks.
So I tried adding Realtracks via Realtracks picker dialogue box. But the tracks dont seem to generate. I tried the help menu - lots of returns when i search on Realtracks picker - but none which cut to the chase.
It doesnt help that the Real track picker dialogue header says "add Real Tracks to Track". Presumably this means
add Real Tracks (as opposed to Midi tracks) to Track in the mixing sense of track.
So I guess my questions are:
1 Is there a simple guide to explain how to use BIAB, especially a general guide on how to use styles/tracks etc?
2 Does the style determine the Midi or Real tracks used, and if so can I modify or create a new a style?
2 Specifically, how do I use the realtracks which I've just downloaded?
I'd be very grateful for any help!
cheers
Tom
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
2. Yes the style determines what midi/RTs are used as these are define within the style. You can create/modify a style but try to find one that suits your need. There are blank styles that can be used to 'make your own' but all instruments must be defined including RDs.
3. Use the RT Picker dialog to assign your RTs to a song. It is the little sax icon next to the drum icon. Once there, your RTs will appear and you can pick and choose parts and instruments.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 122
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Joined: Apr 2007
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Tom, The first thing I would say is to not let yourself get intimidated by the PG Music software. There is a learning curve to this stuff but if you approach it with an open mind and don't expect to be an expert immediately you will find BIAB extremely good for making your own songs and for making different versions of cover songs. Don't expect to make covers that are just like the original. A good way to learn the software is to wade thru the menus and examine each component and make a stab at figuring it out. Don't spend to much time on one thing. The idea is to get an overview like you mentioned.When you get stuck , ask here. I just did a quick google and found a couple of tutorials. While I think they should be helpful they were done for earlier versions so you need to keep in mind there have been changes made along the way. The PG Music site has tons of tutorials and FAQS to peruse so check there too. Just a simple idea on styles is this: Think of styles as a combination of the genre, feel, beat, of a song. When you select a style it's probably a good idea to start by getting some what close to the original style of a BIAB song by picking a style that has similar characteristics. Example ZZJazz swing 8's 140 tempo. If you don't get to radical to start with it will be easier to see how the styles change the flavor of the song. Later on you can try totally different approaches. Don't discount that a style is country oriented. Sometimes you can get some fabulous results with country to jazz , Funk to Pop and so on. Styles can be broken down to to main categories. Real Tracks and Midi Styles. Midi Styles have been around for a long time and there are even 3rd party styles produced by people like Bob Norton of Norton Music.The Real Styles incorporating Realtracks are relatively new (a couple of years maybe). Anyway these styles effectively can replace the midi styles. I won't try to explain how they do it but essentially they have live musicians recorded . Then they are able to chop up the recordings and stitch them together when commanded by the software to produce tracks based on the chords you input or existing BIAB songs that sound more like real musicians playing instead of the tinker toy sounds you get with some cheap synthesizers. Hope this helps get you started. Bob Hunt http://www.bernert.org/tutorials/binab/index.htmlhttp://www.larry-bolch.com/band-in-a-box/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 85
Enthusiast
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 85 |
Hi Rachel and thanks for your quick response.
I can get to the RT picker - either using the icon you described, or by R click on the track and select "add/remove real tracks". In the picker dialogue box I can select the track (ie mixing track) I want to change, and then highlite the new choice - but then what? Do I just close, or do I have to hit the "generate track" button?
Either way, back in the main window if I select the changed track eg Strings, the info box top left shows the new choice (and very confusingly in the drop down beneath the original instrument) but I dont hear anything play. this happens even if I did do the generate track button.
cheers, Tom
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
No need to Generate track as they will generate when you hit Play. I don't know what style you are using but try one from a known RT set you have such as 127. In Stylepicker, scoll down the Category window until you see RT127. That should have a bunch of styles that should be on your machine.
If you still are not hearing sounds, check your audio settings in Windows.
R
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
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OP
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Hi Bob. Thanks also for your encouraging comments.
The problem is I have done quite a lot of wading, and have gotten in pretty deep - like drowning type depth - but still dont have the answers!
I tried to follow those links - but the www is all snarled up here. Googles hilarious halloween animation probably to blame.
See my reply to Rachel - any ideas with the real track picker?
I guess I should explain my main use for BIAB is as backing to my Sax.
Cheers, Tom
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
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OP
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Hi Rachel Quote:
No need to Generate track as they will generate when you hit Play.
When I talk about generating a track, I'm in the Real track picker dialog box of course - but sounds like I dont need to generate it (so whats it there for?!)
Quote:
I don't know what style you are using but try one from a known RT set you have such as 127. In Stylepicker, scoll down the Category window until you see RT127. That should have a bunch of styles that should be on your machine.
Two things - I got BiaB 2011 from new a while back, but then added RT127 just today. So would any of the styles know that the new RT127 was there?
Also, in the Styple picker dialogue, I dont see how you can tel what RTs you're using. THe window on the left only shows the category, the centre window shows the styles, and if you highlite a style, the info window on the right side shows a real track number which doesnt seem to make sense, eg RT416: Sax, Tenor, HipHop Rock Sw 100 (Bluesy), Jack Stafford. I oly have RTs up to 127, so how does RT 416 make sense?
Quote:
If you still are not hearing sounds, check your audio settings in Windows.
R
I'm getting sounbd for all the other tracks - its only the new one I cant hear.
Cheers T
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
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Always check the Support pages for the latest build of the version of the BIAB program you have, and the latest patch for RealTracks. They are well labelled. Start here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support.htmAs for styles, you have good explanations above. One thing that fools people, in my experience, is that, if all your tracks use RealTracks, changing the MIDI style makes no difference! You can use RealStyles to select a group of RealTracks, or you can add them separately, but when you do so, each RealTrack basically IS its own style.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Tom, Realtrack Set 127 contains the Realtracks listed below.  Notice up the top of the RT Picker window, there are columns called "Set" and "#". The "Set" column lists the different families or collections of RTs that PG Music have manufactured (from 1 to 136 so far) and the "#" column lists the individual RT number (#361 - 1562 so far). By clicking on any one of these column headers, it is also possible to sort the column. So, if you click on the "Set" heading, the RT Picker will sort by number and you'll be able to see which RTs are part of set 127. Also, when I was learning BIAB, I found the videos that PG Music assembled to excellent. There are some on the USB drive on which PG Music ship BIAB (if you purchased BIAB that way) and others are found at ... http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm... scroll down the page to the "Video Archives". Lastly, a forum member Shockwave199 has assembled some terrific tutorials on Youtube. The first of these is ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y8X_T3QBIoHope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2010
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OP
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OK thanks all. A couple of developments. First I see now that the RTs have an individual number (#) and a set number - that makes sense. I did the 3.9build update, and in the process lost all the new RTs I'd just bought/loaded. However, I reinstalled these and problem solved. Moreover the RTs now add and sound correctly via the Real Track picker. Unfortunately, if I just add the tracks from RT set 127 to the existing (similar) style, it works - but doesnt sound anything like as good as the PG demo! I guess thats down to me - I need to play around with the chords a bit. Still leaves me with more Q's than A's. Quote:
One thing that fools people, in my experience, is that, if all your tracks use RealTracks, changing the MIDI style makes no difference! You can use RealStyles to select a group of RealTracks, or you can add them separately, but when you do so, each RealTrack basically IS its own style.
Pardon??
Are we saying that selecting an RT will give a rendition particular to that RT, and not influenced by the style? Presumably then a given RT will not be affected by the choice of Midi style or real style, other than in terms of tempo?
Does a Midi Style use only midi instrument, and a Real style use only RTs?
I still dont know whether I should be able to find a style which uses my new RTs ie set 127?
Also the style picker doesnt seem to allow you to choose a style according to your preferred RTs, so even if they were in a given style, how would I find it?
Sorry about the questions!
Cheers, Tom
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 928
Expert
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Quote:
The first thing I would say is to not let yourself get intimidated by the PG Music software. There is a learning curve to this stuff but if you approach it with an open mind and don't expect to be an expert immediately you will find BIAB extremely good for making your own songs and for making different versions of cover songs.
Don't expect to make covers that are just like the original. A good way to learn the software is to wade thru the menus and examine each component and make a stab at figuring it out. Don't spend to much time on one thing. The idea is to get an overview like you mentioned.
That is always the best advice.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 12,793
Veteran
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Quote:
Are we saying that selecting an RT will give a rendition particular to that RT, and not influenced by the style? Presumably then a given RT will not be affected by the choice of Midi style or real style, other than in terms of tempo?
Exactly... 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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We did once have just midi and mid styles.
You had a bunch of styles. There are indications like stars that show up beside the styles that match, as in they are close to the tempo, straight 8ths or swing etc.
Then we got the ability to sub in a Realtrack so instead of having your real style all midi, you had part midi and maybe a guitar in a 4/4 120 tempo strum and you could go about 20 beats lower or faster but you needed a LOT of tracks because it had to cover those bpm's with multiple samples.
THEN, we got all RealTracks styles, and the ability to load up on them. So you could have a midi style (with many synths from hardware to software), or a hybrid style with maybe on RealTrack, then you got the ability to add all RealTracks.
So you have swing styles, straight styles, 4/4, 3/4 and everything from Baroque to Gypsy Jazz.
You can take any style, sub in some realtracks, or all realtracks, and just jam.
Recently, we got Elastique stretching, and you now need less in the way of .wav files or .wma files and this has been a great addition.
I just rattled this off, perhaps the others can jump in, I have lost my former linear method of thinking...Zut.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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thanks for the feedback but I still have a number of unanswered questions.
1 When I go to the stylepicker, should I be able to find a style which feautures my preferred RT?
The style picker dialog box doesnt seem to alow this.
2 The RT 127 demo video on the PG website says "this demo features these styles from RT set 127"
Thia suggests I should be able to find a new style in the style Picker which features these RTs. Is this so and if so how do I do it.
To complicate things I got an access violation message, and it seemed to lock up when geneating new tracks.
I will restart BB and try again - meantime can anyone answer the two qureies above please?
T
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