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OP
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When adding an intro to an existing song, it appears that the bars numbers of the song itself is reorganised.
As an exemple, i have an existing song of 32 bars (Bars numbers range therefore from 1 to 32). If i add an intro (let say : 4 bars), the body of the initial song is renumbered from 5 to 36.
As i am not satisfied with that bars reorganization, is there a way - when adding an intro - to freeze the existing numbering as it was previously ?
Thanks
Daniel
(from Britanny / France)
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daniel
Why are you not satisfied with the bar reorganization ? If you have 32 bars first, and then if you add 4 bars, BIAB auto reassigns the bar numbers, it seems quite logical.
Reach for excellence
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It's logical and that's the covention used in all music notation.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Quote:
is there a way - when adding an intro - to freeze the existing numbering as it was previously ?
)
Answer is no. 
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I also believe the answer is No.
I understand why the OP is asking, though. This is also an annoyance with some dedicated notation programs and DAWs.
For example, let's say you have a DAW with two bars of silence, then a four-bar intro. Some people would like the start of the sound to be bar #1, not bar #3. Others might want the start of the sound to be bar #-4 so the next bar is -3 and the start of the verse is bar #1 (skipping bar zero).
For another example, let's say you have a song with a 16-bar first section that has a one-bar first ending and a one-bar second ending. What is the number of the next bar? 17? 18? 33?
These things do make a difference in the studio. When I ask the engineer to cue up the horn figure at measure #67, we need to agree where that is without a lot of math.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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For me, in a song there is the "BODY" and, possibly, an INTRO.
INTRO in one song is only played one time .... Then, it has not to be merged (in termes of bars numbering) with the "BODY" which is played several times ....
I take a typical exemple (just for the exemple since blues is known worldwide). A standard blues has 12 bars; consequently, those bars are numbered from 1 to 12. If i add 4 bars, a + 4 numbering is done on the basic "body structure". In that case, "BODY" becomes identified with bars 5 to 16. This has no meaning and is very confusing.......
I would like to promote the following idea; to leave the choice to the operator. That is to give him the possibility of choosing the bars numbering.
Do somebody understands my concern ?
Daniel
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We all do undertsand your point of view. But all the notation music softwares - included BIAB - do not rely on your own conception of Body and Intro. Blues - and its famous 12-bar structure - is only a particular case among all the genres of music. Real bar numbers of a song are related to the linear temporal vision of music, independently of its structure.
You may also add a post in the BIAB wishlist forum to submit your idea to PG developpers people.
Last edited by John-Luke; 05/10/12 01:25 AM.
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This sounds like a good candidate for the Band in a Box WISHLIST FORUM.
--Mac
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I agree with Mac.
Some dedicated notation programs allow you to pick any bar you want, and set it to be numbered as "Bar 1". (Any bars before that are either not numbered at all or are numbered as "minus" bars). If that option were available in BIAB it would solve daniel's original problem.
Good luck!
LLOYD S
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That looks interesting. What dedicated notation programs are you referring to ?
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Daniel, Realband has a "bar off-set" setting that will allow you to set where you want bar #1 to be in track view.  The "Lead Sheet" also has this option.  You could open your BIAB file directly into RB and then print the notation out from there. That should solve your problem. Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Noel, your help is always most excellent!
stan
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Hi Stan, Hmm ... "Most excellent" definitely does not apply to my help. Sometimes I'm lucky  Thanks for the compliment, though. I'm pretty sure that the smile you've given me is going to last a few days! All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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FWIW, I too think that Noel is a diamond among the gems around here.
2 ATTABOYS and many THANK YOUS to brother Noel!
--Mac
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I appreciate Noel's workaround, however I would still add the "bar offset" request to the BIAB Wishlist. From Daniel's original and subsequent post, I assumed he wanted to stay in BIAB, as he did not mention anything regarding wanting to "print" the song, only to re-number the bars.
In response to John-Luke's question about the "dedicated notation program", Personal Composer comes to mind. It has a "Measure Numbers" dialog box where you can turn numbering off altogether, skip the first bar, or begin numbering at any bar.
LLOYD S
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The band my wife and I play in gets music in all kinds of 'formats'.
Intro, no intro, repeats dropped/moved. We get the music as is, sometimes it's marked as to A B B or such. Failing that it's from here to there, get out the pencil and mark this in. Then you pencil in the letter parts, cross things out etc...
Of course the prof. who runs the program is teaching us, then the audience.
There is nothing standard in there. If you purchase band music for some arrangement then it is always there, and they use their own format. But when the music is close to 100 years old, and published 30 years ago, and we are run by a prof. then as long as he's teaching he figures it's fair game to copy and mark things up.
But, as I said, there seems to be NO standard. 15 to 18 songs at the start, pared to 12 or so for the program.
I don't get my shorts in any kind of knot over this. Just the pencil and eraser. We kind of are used to the fact the pencil is as important as the instrument you brought. If you don't have both...:)
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
There is nothing standard in there. If you purchase band music for some arrangement then it is always there, and they use their own format.
This is exactly correct. I've been handed books of charts for everything from a trio to a big band for 40 years and I've written my share of them. They're all similar yet still different. Every time I write out a chart and hand it to the players someone will always ask, what are we doing the second time through the C section or whatever. There is no "Standard Song Format Committee" in Bern, Switzerland or London or Hollywood, or New York or Nashville or my back yard that tells us all the correct way to lay out a song and number the bars. Small groups tend to use one or two page charts with repeats and a coda while big bands have everything laid out as one long chart that can run 10 pages or more. That's why Biab has both options.
PG more or less follows the classical convention that says the whole song one time through is a chorus. Not a verse or a bridge or the body or a second ending no, the whole thing played one time is a chorus. From that you can create 1st/2nd endings within the chorus, repeat the chorus and add an intro plus an ending in the form of a tag or coda. Not many complain about the bar numbering but having that option can be useful in certain situations so put it on the Wishlist.
Bob
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