PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows 2007 upgrade to 2012 Issues

Hi Folks,
Tenor sax player.
Finally getting around to keeping up with PGM technology.
Used 2007 infrequently on an XP with VSC DXi for years with no problems.
Then purchased a new laptop....
Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit
intel i5-2410M (whatever that means)
CPU @ 2.3 Ghz
RAM 8 gb
The reason for the somewhat high spec is because I am getting more serious with music.

With the new pc, the following became obsolete!!
VSC Dxi (forced to use MS GS Wavetable and GM Misc instruments)
Real Drums (out of sync. a real bummer)

Less of an issue ....Other things that I bought before and can't use now :
Miles Black's Piano Master Class series,Jazz sax, Rock Sax, Latin

I am a pensioner and would like to keep my costs to a min. I don't want to buy something ("Everything Pack" $399)...again... that I can't FULLY use. Your support for the following please:

Can I use 2012 with the supplied soft synth on my pc? OR do I have to also buy TTS?
If I can't use included soft synth, what other solutions do I have?
Am I forced to convert my pc down to 32 bit?

That's all for now. Your help is most appreciated. I am NOT a techo.

Hi Thailoneus,

While the TTS-1 soft synth will sound much better, the free version of a VSC/DXi that will work on a 64-bit operating system is the Coyote WT (this comes with BIAB 2012 but you might need to install it). As you've already discovered, the Roland VSC/DXi player does not work in a 64-bit environment. Below is a link to a tutorial on DXi that will be beneficial to go through.

http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_dxi.htm

Also, note that you have to have "Microsoft GS Wavetable" selected in the MIDI output driver and not "Midi mapper".

I imagine that the Master Class series you mention will work fine once you have the Coyote WT installed and going.

At this stage, I suggest you have a read through the above URL and follow PG Music's guidelines. Once that's solved, let's then cross the next bridge (instead of trying to cross them all at once!)

The Realdrums being out of sync could possibly be due to the fact that your soundcard is operating at 48000 Hz and Realdrums are 44100 Hz. (But as I said, let's solve that next.)

All the best,
Noel

Noel, Thanks.
Happy to go step wise with issue resolution. It looks as if just upgrading to V2012 will fix "almost" all my issues. Eventually I want to use Realband and Audacity to do some Sax recording for fun etc.

1. Yes I am using MS GS Wavatable. and it works ok.
Can't do what you and the tutorial say.
It simply won't install Roland VSC Dxi from the 2007 disc. Message is "this program has been blocked". It won't let me click on the box for "run this prog in compatibility mode. All greyed out.

2. Buying the 2012 version. OK. Can do and wait for it. BUT...in order to get TTS1 it appears I HAVE to also buy Cakewalk Music maker!!! Is that true? I simply don't want to buy software that I won't use! PGM support recommend TTS over Coyote! I don't understand... Why don't they simply include TTS in BIAB?

I can see in the forum, that you are a pro with BIAB. Appreciate the help.

Cheers.

Hi Thailoneus,

Win 7 Home Premium 64 bit does not have a XP emulation mode. However this free program http://www.howtogeek.com/?post_type=post&p=11060
supposedly adds XP mode . I say supposedly, as I have no experience with it, others whom use it may chirp in. I suggest this as it may help you with your “Miles Black's Piano Master Class series,Jazz sax, Rock Sax, Latin” issues as well as any other XP programs you may have and still want to use. On a side note I’m still using an old Win 95 photo-editing program on Win 7 Pro.

Another option for your sounds are soundfonts. Click here for a list of free soundfont players http://hiphopmakers.com/over-2000-free-soundfonts-free-soundfont-player and a list of free soundfonts. Here http://www.synthfont.com/links_to_soundfonts.html is another list of free soundfonts with one being a GM set that you can automatically use with BiaB. Note that soundfonts may not be quite as good sounding as TTS-1 but they are good and the price is right.

Like Noel said lets get your sound source working first then attack you timing problem.

I hpoe this helps and good luck.

Hi again, thailoneous,

My apologies. I misunderstood your post. From the the thread's title, I thought you had upgraded from 2007 to 2012 and were experiencing problems. I now interpret your posts as trying to get 2007 running on Win 7/64-bit.

There is no way of getting the VSC/DXi to run in a 64-bit environment. Many people on here over the last 3 years or so have tried and tried, and no-one has yet succeeded. The only soft syth options for 64-bit operating systems are:

(a) the Coyote Wave Table that ships free of charge with BIAB 2012 but will not work for 2007 (as far as I'm aware, I'm not sure on this though);

(b) Coyote Forte ($40) which gets great reviews from users and should work for 2007;

(c) TTS-1 that comes as part of Music Creator ($39); TTS-1 also gets great reviews from users and again should work for 2007.

Reading the "Features" link on the PG Music sales pages ...

Music Creator: http://www.pgmusic.com/musiccreator.features.htm

Coyote Forte: http://www.pgmusic.com/coyotefortedxi.features.htm

... it looks like TTS-1 has more sounds and features.

I'd like to say that if you can ever see your way clear to upgrade to 2012, you'll be incredibly impressed. There have been many changes since 2007. Also, sooner or later, PG Music will be running a special on upgrades and these are always a good opportunity. Lastly, the UltraPlusPAK will give you pretty much everything. (That's the one that most of us in the forums use.)

Kind regards,
Noel

Mario,
I like your signature. Am thinking and appreciating waking up myself
Noel,
Thanks for your reply also.

Based on replies from you, I will stop trying to muck around with 2007 and upgrade to 2012. My one real input to PGM is, BIAB is absolutely fantastic for learning stuff. e.g. put material from other sources e.g. Abersold, Coker and practice with BIAB at diff tempos and styles!! Hopefully, my next step is to use the recording capabilities and let you guys hear my progress Thanks to Peter G.

Summary and questions......
1. OK. I will spring for the Ultrapack. I was considering the Everything pack before and need help with the decision. Will the manual/help features with U-Pack be sufficient for me (novice) to use the features. Do I really need the videos that come with the E pack to make full use of the features of the software?
2. I have explored the use of Audacity. Its free, great s/w, and easy to use. Now, because of TTS 1 (I am upgrading, so might as well get TTS1 at the same time), am I to use Music Creator instead of Audacity? (Cunning plan no 1 from PGM?) fyi, I also have a free version of Sonar which I recd.and never used when I bought a Roland FP7 piano. I am starting to clutter up my head and pc, which I so strongly wanted to avoid. Your guidance in these will be most appreciated.
3. To your knowledge, about when will 2012 go on special discounts? If its not such a big deal, I would rather get 2012 asap.
4. So with my PC specs Win 7/64, 8 gb ram, M-Audio interface, SM58 mic, and 2012/TTS1, Selmer Ref 54, I am good for another 5 years? Hope I am around that long. I have so much to do in music

Thanks very much for your help guys.

Hi thailoneous.

You won't be sorry with the UltraPlusPAK.

If you're interested in having a listen to something I created earlier this year using BIAB 2012, the link is below. With the exception of the strings and my singing, everything you hear came from BIAB.

... link to a song using BIAB 2012

This might give you a small glimmer of just how far BIAB has come since your 2007 version!

Quote:

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Will the manual/help features with U-Pack be sufficient for me (novice) to use the features.

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People generally seem to find them sufficient. There's also these forums for help

Quote:

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Do I really need the videos that come with the E pack to make full use of the features of the software?

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There's a large number of free videos under "Support". If you scroll to the bottom of the video tutorial webpage, there's a link to get them all in .zip format.

Quote:

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... am I to use Music Creator instead of Audacity? (Cunning plan no 1 from PGM?) fyi, I also have a free version of Sonar which I recd.and never used when I bought a Roland FP7 piano. I am starting to clutter up my head and pc, which I so strongly wanted to avoid. Your guidance in these will be most appreciated.

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Ultimately, all of the programs do the same thing. The choice is simple. Go with what you are most comfortable with. If you like Audacity, stay with that.

The above being said, BIAB 2012 comes with Realband which is also a Digital Audio Workstation (DAW). This has the unique ability to load in BIAB files and work with Realtracks in ways that no other DAW can. It would be worthwhile getting a working knowledge of this program even if you decide to stay with Audacity.

Quote:

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... when will 2012 go on special discounts?

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There are usually specials on offer somewhere between the beginning of July and mid-August. That is, around about now. This is when the ####.5 versions appear (i.e. 2012.5). If you can wait a week or so, I suggest you do. Historically, the ####.5 versions always have many new features.

Quote:

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So with my PC specs Win 7/64, 8 gb ram, M-Audio interface, SM58 mic, and 2012/TTS1, Selmer Ref 54, I am good for another 5 years?

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As long as you and your computer keep going, you're good!

Hope this helps,
Noel

To get better sounds than the Microsoft GM/GS WaveTable that comes with Windows, you will still need to consider getting something like the TTS-1 or the Coyote Forte DXi synth. The Coyote WT (WaveTable) that comes with BIAB is merely a wrapper around the Microsoft WaveTable so that it presents itself as a DXi synth.

I know that BIAB used to come with a 30-day trial of the Coyote Forte, so that would let you try it for 30-days before deciding whether you want it or not.

Music Creator is a DAW in its own right, but many folks here buy it because it includes the TTS-1 synth and then use RealBand instead. But like anything, it's another music weapon in your arsenal.

If you can afford it, I recommend the UltraPlusPak, because it gives you the most musical flexibility. All the RealTracks and RealDrums, all the MIDI styles, all the MIDI melodists, and most of the MIDI soloists.

Hi Guys,
I do appreciate the time you four gents have taken to help me. All excellent advice.
Based on the advice, I have decided to wait a week or so and buy 2012.5 or ?? or whatever.
I do want to avoid buying Cakewalk's Music creator just so I can have access to TTS1.
Pat,
I looked thru the files. Note i am not a techie.:(
A while ago I installed the free Sonar 8.5 LE (never used it). Looking thru its files I see about 4 x TTS.dll files and 1 x TTS.ini file.
Looking thru the Sonar LE user guide pdf, I see TTS1 is in the "Included plug ins " list.
So maybe I have it already.
The question is how can I find it and actually use it?
e.g. When playing an MP3 file, it defaults to using Windows Media player. I tried play "using..." but cannot find TTS1 in browse mode.

Guys, I am sorry to be such a bore. And thanks for your help. A little venting helps. It just pisses me off that we can't just buy and use ONLY what we want. It is also disappointing that PGM develops a superior piece of software then 'wraps' it with an inferior Coyote.
A further minor issue I have is that I am living in retirement in Thailand!! Absolutely no support for anything that I want in this regard. Even to get my sax serviced, I have to lug it to a techo north of Bangkok ...about a 1000km x 2 trip. So your help is invaluable.

I believe that if you do a custom install of Sonar 8.5LE you can click on whatever you want to install. So just click on TTS-1 and that should be the only item that installs.

If that isn’t an option then install the entire 8.5LE. You will never use it but you will have access to the TTS-1.

The TTS-1 is a DXi synth, which gets installed with information in the Windows registry. So if it installed, BIAB will just see it when you go to select a DXi/VSTi synth.

In fact, if you have BIAB 2007 currently installed, you should already be able to use the TTS-1 in BIAB 2007.

When I click on the DXi synth button on the main screen, it opens up the synth screen where the dropdown menu shows:
Cyclone
DSDXi2
Groove Player
PSYN 11

No TTS 1
None of the above work.i.e. no sound generated when playing BIAB. I have to go back to the MS GS Wavetable for sound.
I will keep trying.

Did you install the Sonar LE on your new system? Seems that TTS-1 should have been installed with it.

The DXi may have loaded in the C:/Programs/Cakewalk/SharedDXi folder so check and see if it’s there. That’s where it is on my 64 bit Win7 system. Also if you installed the 64 bit version of 8.5LE BiaB will not recognize the TTS-1. At least it doesn’t on my system.

Mario, that might be the problem. I had to go back and load the 32-bit version on my computer, so it would load the 32-bit version of the TTS-1 DXi.

I have a couple of older Cakewalk products that I never use and I recognize those things that show up in your Biab window. You're right, they're not synths that you can use in Biab. The TTS-1 should be there if you can see a few dll's with that name. You can't install the TTS-1 by itself, it's only used with a Cakewalk product so you have to install the program that it's a part of whether you need it or not. Since it's not showing up I guess the thing to do is to uninstall Sonar and try again and this time pay close attention to the instructions in the install window and make sure the TTS-1 is included. And, if it's possible don't install those other things that showed up in Biab's midi window since they're useless anyway.

Just a comment to clear up a misconception on your part. Biab has no sounds of it's own. None. It's entirely up to you the user, to provide whatever synth you want to use with it and this is all over PG's website. The prices can be $40 for the Forte up to $400 for the Ketron to $2,000 for my Kurzweil, how much you spend is up to you. The main thing is the more you spend the better it sounds, big surprise there. All PG is doing is giving people a freebie to get started. Free is worth what you paid for it. Roland stopped supporting the VSC like 15 years ago so when it was discovered that the VSC won't work with 64 bit Windows, PG managed to find a workaround for people who haven't picked up a proper synth yet by working with Coyote to write some software to allow your built in MS Wavetable to act as a DXi synth. Just the Wavetable by itself (not the DXi version) has horrible latency and you can't do automatic rendering with it. You have to have a DXi/VSTi for that. The problem with the Coyote Wavetable version is it still only uses your MS Wavetable for sound and it still sounds like crap. In my opinion, this is not a reason to switch to 32 bit Windows, there's lots of very good reasons to use 64 bit and I won't bore you with them here.

I know you said in your original post you're not a "techo". There's probably stuff I just referred to here you don't understand. You have to learn this and understand it or it's going to be a long hard road for you. This stuff is tricky at first but like anything else in life once you learn it, it's easy.

Keep plugging away and keep posting your questions here, we'll get you going.

I got interrupted while I was writing this and I see John posted about installing the 32 bit version of Sonar. Note that's not changing your Windows to 32 bit. A lot of programs now ship with both 64 and 32 bit versions. Almost all 32 bit programs work fine with Windows 64 bit including Sonar and Biab. The thing is 64 Bit Sonar is faster and handles memory better than the 32 bit version but I'm taking you into the weeds of "techodom" again. Bottom line reinstall Sonar or look in that other folder. One way or another you have the TTS-1 and will be able to use it.

Bob

More info, based on all the input received, for your sleuthing...
Firstly, The free Sonar LE disc I recd with the FP7 piano...Sys reqmnts on the cover says Windows XP/2000.
I later recd an internet download of Sonar 8.5 LE. I am sure that was a 64 bit version, which I loaded.
Secondly, to Mario's/John's comments...
I have 2 relevant folders on the C drive.
Program Files - I will assume this is where "non 64 bit" programs are automatically stored.
Program Files (x86) - I will assume this is where "64 bit programs are automatically stored. /Cakewalk folder is here. Inside the /cakewalk there are
/Shared Dxi - has only Cyclone, Groove Player and PSYNII
/Sonar LE - Mostly application extension files. This is where I have 4 TTS dll's and 1 TTS ini file. Also has the SONARLE.EXE file.

It would love to see some resolution to all this.

Having said all that, ..........
I have learned a lot (thanks to all), and will buy BB 2012 or whatever PGM will or will not offer in the next weeks. I will also buy Music Creator for TTS1.... After I reconfirm that TTS1 (rather than Forte) is the best in the price range, and that BIAB 2012 and TTS1 will run together on my laptop spec.... Win 7Home Premium/64/8gb RAM.

This experience has given me a warm feeling that there is "real, noob tolerant, and intelligent" support on this forum. Peter G must surely know this and smile in his sleep! My apologies for the one small rant a few days ago. Quite uncharacteristic of me. The minor slap on the wrist from Pat was timely and well received. Having mucked around in the forum, I have also found music that some of you guys have created...great to listen to.