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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303 |
I'd like to see a feature within BIAB that shows dozens of scales and modes from all around the world.
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900
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Veteran
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,900 |
What would you do with it? There are plenty of books and online sites that offer this
Follow That Dream Sam Karaoke King -------------------- Turning that corner again - I have to keep following that dream, no matter what
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303 |
I would do ,with it, exactly what you do with the websites, except that there would be no need to use the websites. As for the books, I haven't found one that lists every scales and modes. So that's what I would do. Open a windon in BIAB and get all 800 of these scales, and more importantly, define your chord progressions on them. 
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I prefer the quick method shortcut that give you all the possible scales:
The Tetrachords.
Get to know and internalize all possible 4-note groups.
Think in the half-steps, the intervals *between* the notes and not the notes themselves. "Negative logic" as it were.
For example:
1-1-1/2 -- defines the first four notes of the Major Scale.
It also defines the last four notes of the same scale, with only a single whole step in between.
So 1-1-1/2 -- 1 -- and then 1-1-1/2 again is the full Major Scale. Broken down into two identical tetrachords.
C,D,E,F
Now apply all possible iterations of half-steps between those first four notes to derive the only other possible tetrachords, one at a time:
1, !/2, 1 -- defines the first four notes of the Minor Scale.
Putting the above together with the Major Tetrachord place after the Minor Tetrachord yields the Natural minor Scale: 1, 1/2, 1 -- 1 -- 1, 1, 1/2
1, 1/2, 1, 1
1, 1/2, 1, 1/2 -- Hollywood's infamous "Arabian" tetrachord
1, 1, 1 -- Augmented, of course, internalizing the sound of the flat five here.
1, 1, 1/2, 1-1/2
1/2, 1-1/2, 1
Done.
Takes most people only about two weeks at most to "own" them all.
Just practice playing the tetrachords up and down on your instrument until you can sing them all without the instrument being involved. What I call, "ownership" of these intervals. Envisualizing the half step as being farther apart than most do in their heads is a good tip here. Think of the tetrachords as being "spread out" farther and you'll soon nail 'em faster.
The scales, and thus the modes are all built from these basic building blocks.
Within a short time, your ear will take over and you don't have to be concerned with all those categories or lists that would require a spreadsheet and rote memorization of something that has little real value to your composing and playing. Just as our brains are able to compute a ballistic equation that would require the calculus to derive, yet we can look at that waste can and manage to toss a ball into it without really thinking about all that stuff...
Please don't get angry or start those long threads about what you happen to know or not, folks, I ain't kidding about this shortcut, many spend a lifetime without ever taking the simple path to this success. Sometimes I think that teachers are more about having you come back to pay them next week and next year than about teaching someone how to simply Git-R-Done. The same can be said for those who compile and then sell huge books of scales and modes. Or softwares that do the same...
--Mac
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 716 |
Agree with all of what you say Mac. In fact of all the posts about chords and scales we've had on this forum I can't think of a more important one than yours here. it's absolutely fundamental to get these sounds in your head as most players think in these smaller groupings when building improvised lines. (remembering of course the inversions of all the above)
I see where you're coming from with your ballistics analogy..its possible to over-analyse here and fail to let your ear do the judging.
However think it's a good idea initially to categorize these tetrachords in order of dissonance or at least as examples of diatonic major/minor, chromatic and atonal tetrachords. It gives you a basis for organizing and selecting the material, controlling the tension and release of your lines as well as aiding the learning process by breaking it down into even smaller components. (btw I'm also thinking of the tetrachord as being a 4 note grouping up to and including the b5th not just the perfect 4th as defined traditionally. )
The entire system of major minor melodic minor, harmonic minor and harmonic major along with whole tone and diminished scales can be built from combinations of the following 8 simple formulas.
DIATONIC semitones
Lydian 2,2,2
Ionian 2,2,1
Dorian 2,1,2
Phrygian 1,2,2
CHROMATIC semitones
Hungarian Major 3,1,2
Hungarian minor 2,1,3
Harmonic 1,3,1
Spanish 1,2,1
Beyond that you've also got the atonal tetrachords most of which have two semitones.(the Harmonic and Spanish listed above are in both categories)
They're good to know for compiling exotic scales and all the other 1 octave symmetric scales possibilities. so you should make an inventory of those too.
CHROMATIC/ATONAL
1,1,1
1,1,2
1,1,3
1,1,4
1,1,5
1,2,1
1,2,3
1,3,1
1,4,1
2,1,1
3,1,1
4,1,1
As far as scales are concerned it would be a good project to harmonize any of the main tonal scales and their modes using BIAB and try superimposing these modes and their chord voicings on a section of a well known tune. You dont see BIAB used that way very often and it would be a nice change from standard II V I arrangements.
Regards
Alan
Last edited by alan S.; 01/31/10 05:49 PM.
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303 |
hi Mac, sorry I saw your excellent reply only now. Thanks, it is very interesting. I have already done the singing stuff on the diatonic modes, which is what I do with any scale I learn. The old jazz proverb 'if you can't sing it, you can't play it' holds true. But.....I don't believe you can tackle all the material you mentioned in two weeks. Plus, I want just to look at a chart, learn the scale (by singing it many times and even improvising with the voice only on a chord progression....works well) and just put it to use. I agree that 'rote memorization' can be very stiff and at times even useless, but why constructing the scales yourself, when people have compiled them in a list ? Plus, one could never really find them all, there's just too many combinations. But your approach is admirable, I can see the spirit of jazz in it.  I will try some of what you said nonetheless. Thanks
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Styles and RealTracks Wishlist
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 303 |
thanks Alan, very interesting. I admit that I come more from a classical perspective so I am not as advanced with all the scales you mentioned. In fact, I only use the diatonic modes other than the standard minor and major scales. That's the only 'caveat' of classical harmony.....they don't incorporate modes and other scales as they do in modal jazz.
I hope to learn the other ones soon.....surely they offer a lot of possibilities and new sonorities
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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