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Please use your imagination and put yourself in this setting...you and your band are doing a soft, sweet, slow song, and you begin the song by playing your guitar (or piano) softly and singing without any other musicians playing along with you. You go through one verse and maybe even one chorus, all very soft and sweet, and then when it's time for the band to softly join you at the beginning of the next verse, THE DRUMMER BEGINS WITH A LOUD CRASH CYMBAL! EVERY SONG! Now shift your imagined setting just a bit to a church where you are the praise and worship leader and this is happening on every soft worship song every Sabbath. The beginning cymbal crash is loud and disruptive. That's what is happening to me ever since I upgraded to BIAB 2013. With previous versions of the program, I could right-click on the part marker of measure 1 and select <no change in substyle>, save the song, and it would begin without the crash cymbal. Now I can select <no change in substyle> and save the song but when I reopen the song, the part marker and the crash cymbal are back. Happens on every song. In case you're wondering, the Prefs option for this cymbal crash on bar 1 is unchecked (turned off), I have build 365b, and I have done the "Return to Factory Settings" bit. I did speak to Rob in Tech Support about this last week and he was very nice and he duplicated the problem and agreed that this is acting differently than previous versions. He told me he would write it up but he didn't know how soon a patch would be issued to fix it. I am confident that it's on a list somewhere to be fixed "someday." I'm actually surprised this hasn't already come up before I first mentioned it back on December 10. Don't you folks who perform notice the crash cymbal on beat 1? It's not such a big deal on fast songs, but on the slow songs that start softly, it is a huge deal for me and should be for anyone, I think. Maybe the BIAB community wasn't that aware of the capability to turn it off by right-clicking on bar 1 and selecting <no change in substyle>. I do think it was sort of a hidden feature that I learned about from someone in tech support a couple of years ago. I understand that PG Music probably needs to accumulate a few issues to fix all at once with one comprehensive patch rather than issuing a separate patch for each issue. And I am a very happy, long time user of BIAB, both in professional and worship settings; I don't want to sound like a complainer. But please fix this soon. Pretty Please? With sugar on it? Peter, could you please put some additional priority on this one for me? I would be most grateful. 
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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Don't be surprised, Jim, if this doesn't show up pretty quickly. It used to do this, and the option is there in Preferences to do it, so my guess it's an easy fix. PGMusic is usually pretty good about fixing problems like this pretty quickly once reported.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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I have also experienced crashes where I did not have them previously. On chords you push by an eighth.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Hi Jim,
Are you talking about a particular style? I have 2013 build 365b and I don't get a crash cymbal on beat 1 of bar 1.
Do you have the standard 2-bar count-in happening or have you set it to A or B style fill-ins? (Opt | Preferences | Count-in)
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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What settings are you are using for Options, Preferences, Count-in?
EDIT: I see Noel had the same notion while I was thinking about the question and writing the post.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 01/03/13 07:07 PM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hi again, Jim, For what it's worth, here are my metronome/count-in settings. They might help with some ideas.  As Matt has indicated above, it would be interesting to know what your settings are. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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.
>.....Maybe the BIAB community wasn't that aware of the capability to turn it off by right-clicking on bar 1 and selecting <no change in substyle>...>>>>..
Well, dog my cat. I sure did not know about this trick. I can think of some songs where I will be happier without the opening accents.
I tried a new age style and now I hear what you are taking about. I changed the first measure as "C.bpgs, C" which has the drums sit out on beat 1. Worked pretty well, actually, on a couple slow songs.
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Thanks, folks, for your input. I am experiencing this on various styles, but the ones I use the most on slow songs are some hybrid styles I made using JOHNBAL and SARAH1. The crash also occurs with ^-PBAL_60, *ARPEGGIO, ^BROWNSVL, ^C2_HILL, *C_SWEET, *FOREVER, *PW_AVA, ^PW_MARK, *SARAH1 (especially noticeable on that one), ^SUMRMOOD, and *WORSHIP.
Here are my settings for Count-In:(I don't have the image on a webpage so I can't paste it)
These items are checked: Allow Lead-In Bars, 1 bar lead-in, Play lead-in even if Intro Present, Lead-in type is "Count-in", Audible Lead-In, Instrument is Sidestick, Pattern is 1-3-1234, Lead-in drum count if drums muted/disabled. Metronome is set for Lead-in Only, Top Right.
For what it's worth, I am using Real Drums on 99% of my songs. The real problem for me isn't that some styles produce the crash, but rather that I can't make the part marker stay off because that would eliminate it (or that the Prefs option for the crash cymbal on bar 1 doesn't always keep it from sounding.)
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Quote:
I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."
Yes, those having this problem should check that and see if it goes away.
As far as the Part Marker at 1st bar goes, I don't think we have a way to remove that.
But the cymbal crash was made removable as above several versions back. Check to see that the feature is still working, though. Seems to be here.
--Mac
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Of the few styles that I use, only the Evans trio style,(minus piano), gives me a cymbal crash on beat one. Is that a bug or is there a way to get rid of the crash? Later, Ray
Last edited by raymb1; 01/04/13 07:17 AM.
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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As I posted previously, I'm getting the cymbal crash on 2013 during the count-in when I import dragged files into my DAW.
But since I eventually cut out the count-in anyway, I haven't made a very big deal of it.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Graham said, "I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."
As I said in my original post, this has already been done, and it did not fix the problem.
Thanks, anyway,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Quote:
I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."
Yes, those having this problem should check that and see if it goes away.
As far as the Part Marker at 1st bar goes, I don't think we have a way to remove that.
But the cymbal crash was made removable as above several versions back. Check to see that the feature is still working, though. Seems to be here.
--Mac
Mac, you are one of the most knowledgeable and helpful people on this forum and I greatly appreciate all you have done and continue to do. With all due respect, we DID have a way to remove the Part Marker at the first bar; I know this because I've been doing it successfully at least for a couple of years. But now all of a sudden I can no longer do it. (Actually, I can remove it, but after saving the song and reopening it, the part marker and the crash cymbal are back; that never happened before the 2013 version was installed.)
And as I said earlier, the option to uncheck the "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a cymbal crash" has already been done and it makes no difference. And I have done the "Return to Factory Setings" bit, too, and it didn't help, either.
I definitely have been able to permanently remove a first bar part marker until I installed the 2013 upgrade. But now I'm stuck with the beginning crash cymbal on most songs. Don't mind so much on fast songs which tend to be louder anyway, it's on the slow, soft ones that it's a problem.
Thanks,
Jim
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Hi again, Jim,
I notice that you have a 1-bar lead-in. Out of curiosity, does the same problem exist if it's a 2-bar lead-in?
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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If you've found a way in the past to remove the first bar Part Marker, well, that's something I've never been able to make happen. There have been times when I've certainly wished I could, a few times when I tried all sorts of workarounds, but came to the conclusion that it was not possible. Yeah, when I thought I had finally accomplished it, reopening the file brought it back again. So I figured it is hard coded.
--Mac
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Quote:
Hi again, Jim,
I notice that you have a 1-bar lead-in. Out of curiosity, does the same problem exist if it's a 2-bar lead-in?
Regards,
Noel
I just tried it with a 2-bar lead-in and it made no difference.
Jim
Psalm 33:3 Sing unto him a new song; play skillfully with a loud noise.
BIAB 2018 build 519; Dell Inspiron N4110, Windows 10 64 bit, Intel Core i3-2350m running at 2.29 GHz, Memory: 6 GB DDR3, SDRAM 1MHz
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Technically unrelated to the cymbal crash on 1st beat/1st bar, but related to the 1st bar Part Marker:
I am still on BiaB 2011.5, and, based on a little trial and error testing, found the following:
1. If the first bar has a repeat, you cannot remove the Part Marker.
2. If the first bar does not have a repeat, you can remove the Part Marker.
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There needs to be a part marker on bar 1.
The crash cymbal on bar 1 will be removed with the next patch.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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