PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Would You Hire a Drummer That Does This?

Please use your imagination and put yourself in this setting...you and your band are doing a soft, sweet, slow song, and you begin the song by playing your guitar (or piano) softly and singing without any other musicians playing along with you. You go through one verse and maybe even one chorus, all very soft and sweet, and then when it's time for the band to softly join you at the beginning of the next verse, THE DRUMMER BEGINS WITH A LOUD CRASH CYMBAL! EVERY SONG!

Now shift your imagined setting just a bit to a church where you are the praise and worship leader and this is happening on every soft worship song every Sabbath. The beginning cymbal crash is loud and disruptive.

That's what is happening to me ever since I upgraded to BIAB 2013. With previous versions of the program, I could right-click on the part marker of measure 1 and select <no change in substyle>, save the song, and it would begin without the crash cymbal. Now I can select <no change in substyle> and save the song but when I reopen the song, the part marker and the crash cymbal are back. Happens on every song. In case you're wondering, the Prefs option for this cymbal crash on bar 1 is unchecked (turned off), I have build 365b, and I have done the "Return to Factory Settings" bit.

I did speak to Rob in Tech Support about this last week and he was very nice and he duplicated the problem and agreed that this is acting differently than previous versions. He told me he would write it up but he didn't know how soon a patch would be issued to fix it. I am confident that it's on a list somewhere to be fixed "someday."

I'm actually surprised this hasn't already come up before I first mentioned it back on December 10. Don't you folks who perform notice the crash cymbal on beat 1? It's not such a big deal on fast songs, but on the slow songs that start softly, it is a huge deal for me and should be for anyone, I think. Maybe the BIAB community wasn't that aware of the capability to turn it off by right-clicking on bar 1 and selecting <no change in substyle>. I do think it was sort of a hidden feature that I learned about from someone in tech support a couple of years ago.

I understand that PG Music probably needs to accumulate a few issues to fix all at once with one comprehensive patch rather than issuing a separate patch for each issue. And I am a very happy, long time user of BIAB, both in professional and worship settings; I don't want to sound like a complainer. But please fix this soon. Pretty Please? With sugar on it? Peter, could you please put some additional priority on this one for me? I would be most grateful.

Don't be surprised, Jim, if this doesn't show up pretty quickly. It used to do this, and the option is there in Preferences to do it, so my guess it's an easy fix. PGMusic is usually pretty good about fixing problems like this pretty quickly once reported.

I have also experienced crashes where I did not have them previously. On chords you push by an eighth.

Hi Jim,

Are you talking about a particular style? I have 2013 build 365b and I don't get a crash cymbal on beat 1 of bar 1.

Do you have the standard 2-bar count-in happening or have you set it to A or B style fill-ins? (Opt | Preferences | Count-in)

Regards,
Noel

What settings are you are using for Options, Preferences, Count-in?

EDIT: I see Noel had the same notion while I was thinking about the question and writing the post.

Hi again, Jim,

For what it's worth, here are my metronome/count-in settings. They might help with some ideas.



As Matt has indicated above, it would be interesting to know what your settings are.

Regards,
Noel

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>.....Maybe the BIAB community wasn't that aware of the capability to turn it off by right-clicking on bar 1 and selecting <no change in substyle>...>>>>..

Well, dog my cat. I sure did not know about this trick. I can think of some songs where I will be happier without the opening accents.

I tried a new age style and now I hear what you are taking about. I changed the first measure as "C.bpgs, C" which has the drums sit out on beat 1. Worked pretty well, actually, on a couple slow songs.

Thanks, folks, for your input. I am experiencing this on various styles, but the ones I use the most on slow songs are some hybrid styles I made using JOHNBAL and SARAH1. The crash also occurs with ^-PBAL_60, *ARPEGGIO, ^BROWNSVL, ^C2_HILL, *C_SWEET, *FOREVER, *PW_AVA, ^PW_MARK, *SARAH1 (especially noticeable on that one), ^SUMRMOOD, and *WORSHIP.

Here are my settings for Count-In:(I don't have the image on a webpage so I can't paste it)

These items are checked: Allow Lead-In Bars, 1 bar lead-in, Play lead-in even if Intro Present, Lead-in type is "Count-in", Audible Lead-In, Instrument is Sidestick, Pattern is 1-3-1234, Lead-in drum count if drums muted/disabled. Metronome is set for Lead-in Only, Top Right.

For what it's worth, I am using Real Drums on 99% of my songs. The real problem for me isn't that some styles produce the crash, but rather that I can't make the part marker stay off because that would eliminate it (or that the Prefs option for the crash cymbal on bar 1 doesn't always keep it from sounding.)

I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."

Of the few styles that I use, only the Evans trio style,(minus piano), gives me a cymbal crash on beat one. Is that a bug or is there a way to get rid of the crash? Later, Ray

Graham said, "I think this was mentioned the last time this subject was raised. In Preferences, Arrangement Options in the bottom left hand corner there is a box to tick, or not for your requirement, which says, "First Bar of first chorus of song gets a drum cymbal crash."

As I said in my original post, this has already been done, and it did not fix the problem.

Thanks, anyway,
Jim

Hi again, Jim,

I notice that you have a 1-bar lead-in. Out of curiosity, does the same problem exist if it's a 2-bar lead-in?

Regards,
Noel

If you've found a way in the past to remove the first bar Part Marker, well, that's something I've never been able to make happen. There have been times when I've certainly wished I could, a few times when I tried all sorts of workarounds, but came to the conclusion that it was not possible. Yeah, when I thought I had finally accomplished it, reopening the file brought it back again. So I figured it is hard coded.


--Mac

Technically unrelated to the cymbal crash on 1st beat/1st bar, but related to the 1st bar Part Marker:

I am still on BiaB 2011.5, and, based on a little trial and error testing, found the following:

1. If the first bar has a repeat, you cannot remove the Part Marker.

2. If the first bar does not have a repeat, you can remove the Part Marker.

There needs to be a part marker on bar 1.

The crash cymbal on bar 1 will be removed with the next patch.

Thanks, Peter