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I've been away from my PC last two days but 5-10 seconds does seem "slow" I sampled 25 songs at random, different genres, styles, RT mixes using only the supplied DEMO songs for those styles. I averaged around ~3.5'ish seconds. Shortest was less than 2 seconds and longest was 5+ seconds.
Preference settings are same as yours shown, expect the additional check box that Matt previously suggested be checked.
My HDD's are only 7200 RPM and I run BIAB (non-audiophile RT's), and 95% of all my music/DAW SW, from a NON-OS drive (in my case, my second or D drive).
NOT a scientific test and very unlikely to be songs/files you tried to generate so take with big block of NaCl
Since no one has asked, and not sure it means anything but you don’t some onerous AV or other malware checker running in real time interrupting ever file call/file access on your C drive do you? As a point of reference, I DO have MS Sec. Essentials, as well as COMDO Firewall, running and I still get "decent" speeds.
However, for detailed insight on RT's and BIAB I defer to Matt, Mac, Andrew at PG and many others here _ I really have no "standard" against which to measure what is "slow" or "fast" - just what is "good enough" for me.
GOOD LUCK!
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/08/13 06:00 PM.
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Speed of loading RTs can be different for different folks and still nothing more wrong than use of differing CPU's, motherboards, amount of ram, etc. And OS. Those still running XP machines and cpus that were state of the art back when XP was state of the art should not expect that machine to load them as fast as say, an i5 or i7 running Win7.
--Mac
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Hi Everyone!
So what I'm hearing here is that ultimately, if you are working with a compressed file from BIAB as compared to an "Audiophile" file there are very little difference between the two by the time the "whole mix" is completed.
Is that correct?
If so, I would also ascertain that if you are working in RealTracks (or any other capable DAW (Pro Tools, Sonar, Logic Pro, FL Studio, Reaper etc.) that the compressed fies have been imported to, along with the proper mixing skills (EQ, compression, etc) on each track, the difference would be so minute, in most cases it wouldn't be heard at all by the great majority of listeners. Correct?
So, I think I'll continue honing my "mixing" chops before I shell out the extra bucks for the "Audiophile" version of BIAB. The results I'm getting now (I work within Sonar X1) are very acceptable (I'd say somewhere between a semi-pro and pro level of sound quality), and that's only because of my lack of knowledge with mixing specifically. I'm sure as my mixing abilities improve the overall sound of my projects will follow suit.
This seems to be a much more beneficial goal to reach for in the "big" scheme of things for me as I continue in the "Music Production" world!
Just My Two Cents,
Harpo
Last edited by Harpo; 01/09/13 09:59 AM.
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My PC
Intel Quad Core Q9650 3Ghz [12Mb cache]
8Gb DDR3 RAM 1066
10,000rpm C: drive [BIAB installed on this drive]
7200rpm D: drive
GeForce 9600GT 1Gb Graphics
Asus Xonar Essence STX Sound card.
Windows 7 64bit Ultimate
Microsoft Security Essentials
Malwarebytes Pro
Windows Firewall
O&O clevercache 7
O&O defrag Pro 16
Tuneup Utilities 2010
System tweaked for best performance
I would say that the regeneration to try out different tracks as my songs is plays is around 5sec but sometimes creeps up to 9ish. Doesn't sound like much, but if I want to quickly try out new styles to find the right one it take ages.
Tested again, played my songs with one style then as it played randomly played another style. It pauses then plays the new style. This gap of no sound is averaging around 6sec but when I picked "J140_TB.STY" it took 15sec.
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Not sure what to suggest I just tried that style (J140...) with its corresponding demo song and it took less than 3 seconds from PLAY until first beat of metronome started.
again same style and demo song on my 2Ghz Win 32 Core 2 Duo laptop with a 300 GB 5200 rpm (?) drive it only took around 8 seconds - so????
Your sound card is better spec'ed than mine BUT I'm not running anything "extra" like the O&O cache thing either
my desktop PC synopsis
- Win 7 Pro 64 bit
- 3.3 Ghz i7-2600K/8MB cache (not over clocked or tweaked - factory "as is")
- 16GB DDR3 1600 ram,
- 2GB AMD HD6900 series graphics
- Four - 2TB/64MB cache WD 7200 RPM "black" drives
- And ASrock MoBo w/Realtek chipset for audio playback
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Quote:
So I'm speaking of a different double blind test anyway.
Got ya Mac... 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Paul, What I often do when testing new styles it set up an 8 bar progression based on the song I'm working on: 4 bars have an A part-marker and 4 bars have the B part-marker. I set the song so that it has no count-in (under Preferences), the 2-bar ending is disabled, it plays through a single chorus, and has the "loop" check-box set. I then start the song playing, go into the Style picker and progressively work my way through the styles by selecting them and then hitting the "Play" button. Prior to selecting styles, though, I set the filter to show those styles that have tempos comparable to that of my song. There's a small delay when changing styles because Realtracks and Realdrums need to be created from their original instrumental files. This involves copying sections, transposing to the chord needed and then blending the new chord with the previous one. So by having shorter chord sequences, regeneration is much quicker. The "loop" option simply means that I get continuous playback while I'm trying out styles. Sometimes when I think, "I wish this was quicker", I quickly follow it with the thought, "Before BIAB came along, I couldn't have created arrangements like I now do because I didn't have all these groups at my disposal!" That helps  Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Quote:
Not sure what to suggest I just tried that style (J140...) with its corresponding demo song and it took less than 3 seconds from PLAY until first beat of metronome started.
I'm considering upgrading my PC this year to a similar spec to your.
Just to mention that I'm not stopping the song, selecting a style then pressing play again. I play a song and whilst it's playing, select another style and press the play button on the Styles page. This is where I time each regeneration.
Also your PC is better [faster] than mine.
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Quote:
Just to mention that I'm not stopping the song, selecting a style then pressing play again. I play a song and whilst it's playing, select another style and press the play button on the Styles page. This is where I time each regeneration.
Doing this slows my system to a crawl, it is a lot faster on my system to stop the playback BEFORE generating the new style...
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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I'll get push back from some here probably, but for all intents and purposes your specs and mine for THIS fucntion are effectively the same unless I completely misread your info. Nothing wrong with your specs. I think you have something else "slowing" it down (again look at post above my really OLD LAPTOP speeds are better than yours so that's just wrong!).
Maybe a defrag, or turn off that cache program? Or maybe you have a bunch of other stuff running in memory that hogs CPU cycles??
And as far as I know, once you load a new style and hit play, and even if all you do is hit PLAY again, it is (MAC/MATT? soemone?) the same as starting from scratch.
Hitting "Play" regenerates ALL the RT's - whether song is unchanged or not.
I use BIAB but almost never look under hood so I could be wrong So again take EVERYTHING I say with loads of NaCl
good luck
Larry
Last edited by Larry Kehl; 01/10/13 04:37 PM.
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Larry,
Speed of generation also depends on the length of the song, the number of chords and types of chord present, the number of partmarkers, etc. Without knowing anything about Paul's song, it's beginning to sound like his is perhaps longer and chordally more complex.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Larry, two-part answer.
It's the Play button for version 2012.5 and earlier, and the GenPlay button for 2013. Yes, that causes a full regeneration of any track not frozen, at least as I understand it (and watch it happening).
Also, I don't recall if it has been mentioned in this growing thread, but the speed of the hard drive matters and for that reason, I run BIAB from a SSD and placed the RealTracks on a mechanical hard drive running at 10,000 rpm. The performance for generating RealTracks improved dramatically over having everything on a typical 7,200 drive. My computer is a four-year old Core 2 Duo, nothing much compared to what's available now, but BIAB runs great.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Larry is correct, as a matter of fact, for 2013 the name of the PLAY button has been changed to reflect what it really does, "GEN/PLAY".
The older versions, the Play button works the exact same way, but changing the name was thought to better describe the action.
Now I'm wondering.
--Mac
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Matt
I'm quite happy with my 7200 rpm drives and BIAB gen/regen speed. It's PaulH system with his 10K Raptor drives that is not as fast as I would think it should be.
It's even (apparently) slower than my 5600 RPM laptop HDD!
That's why I think he really has more running in real time background then he thinks or some other gotcha' going on. Just trying to see if anyone has any suggestions he could try before we start the "CTRL-ALT-DEL task manger look and inventory his processes", see what is loading via MSCONFIG, etc.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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That's a good suggestion for diagnosing why a system would run slowly. Another thing to check is to download and run the DPC Latency Checker (easily found on Google). Unless you are running Windows 8, this utility shows if anything is running that interferes with digital audio. Whether or not this directly relates to the regeneration speed in BIAB, it's worth checking. The website has instructions.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Forgot about DPC - great suggestion PaulH you should really find that and try it (actually... here's a link) http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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Maybe not relevant but who can remember the speed that those first 3 realtracks generated at? Every time I just think that it could be faster I remember those days and am grateful for the speed at which it works now. Also appreciate what IS REALLY happening during the generate/regenerate process ......
I'm doing allright for Country Trash ....
I used to care, but things have changed (Bob Dylan)
BIAB 2026W + RB
M-Audio FastTrack C600, Rode NT2-A
Digitech VoiceLive 4
Epiphone Sheraton, Ibanez 12str, Washburn 6str, Cort 6Str Nylon
Yanagisawa Tenor Sax
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Here's my results. I'm very picky about system performance and always tweek my computer for maximum speed so I don't think the speed of regeneration has anything to do with my PC programs. 
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I think DPC is for finding out if the machine can stream audio, how well it can stream audio, typically from disk. Your display shows a good report indeed.
But use of Realtracks is a different situation from what happens in a multitrack recording software, ie the realtime streaming of a number of stored tracks playing back while the realtime streaming of another number of tracks being recorded to disk must take place without latency.
When I load a Realtracks song and hit GEN/PLAY, the bb program starts building a performance file and the disk is accessed to grab the different parts of each audio file that represents a raw realtrack, but it does not grab the file from front to back, it must dance around throughout that file, picking bits and pieces of phrases that are singled out by those .st files.
Then, I'm pretty certain that compilation gets loaded into RAM memory for playback.
Why I'm fairly certain of that is because I can load an all Realtracks song, hit Gen/Play and there is lots of disk activity at first, which continues a short time sometimes even after the song starts to play because there is a routine that will allow the song to start to play after a certain amount of realtrack "assembly" exists, the remainder is processed while the song is playing that "beginning" stack.
Thereafter, I can replay the already loaded song and see very little disk activity.
So it is certainly a good thing to get a low DPC report, I'm sure that can sometimes be a problem if the DPC Latency is rather high, but it also indicates only one type of problem.
Defragging the hard drives addresses another type of problem and that should also be done when troubleshooting the loading times of your realtracks. Yes, I have seen improvements in that department by defragging. Both the c: system drive as well as any other drive where the realtracks may be stored. Don't be misled by the caveat all over the internet about the need for interleaved audio files, that is an entirely different thing and realtracks don't stream that way.
--Mac
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While we wait to hear back from PaulH, assuming he needed to go defrag and see if there was any improvement. I never got to excited about generation speeds because of what/how I use BIAB.
But has anyone here, including tech guru's at PG, actually ever done a top down: "what/how to optimize BIAB" for song generation? [besides "defrag," put RT's on an internal "fast" drive, etc.]
If there was ever a discussion I never followed it so I wouldn’t remember.
This topic has now peaked my interest somewhat.
Larry
Win10Pro,i9,64GB,2TBSSD+20TBHDDs,1080TI,BIAB'24,Scarlett18i8,Montage7,Fusion 8HD,QS8,Integra7,XV5080,QSR,SC-8850,SPLAT,FL21&others,Komp.14,IK suite&others, just a guitar player-AXE FX III &FM9T, FishmanTP, MIDIGuitar2, GK2/3'sw/GI20
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