PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Shots and holds middle choruses?

Is there a way to ignore shots and holds (like I use on "Sister Sadie") on the middle choruses, so I don't have to copy the whole song again at the bottom for solos? I've been doing things like "song starts at 37 with b measures" then Coda to the beginning till end -- kind of a pain and waste of space. Any tricks?

I'm not aware of a one-button solution, but I sure would like a checkbox to "Ignore Shots and Holds in Middle Choruses". There already is something similar, a checkbox to play the 'busy' style in middle choruses.

What I sometimes do now as another workaround is write the chords, generate and freeze some of the tracks, then add the shots and holds and generate again.

Your suggestion would be a good Wishlist item.

Thanks Matt, I'll post it there.
Mike

That's assuming I am correct that there isn't already such a function. Maybe wait a bit to see if others know?

Rightclick on any bar and choose Song Settings.

Note the checkboxes that by default allow Rests in Middle Choruses.

Since Shots and Holds fall under Rests in the Chord Settings, this should stop Holds and Shots as well.


--Mac

I wonder if you can then copy that bar setting across a range of bars? That would make it a lot easier to handle a whole song. I'm not at a BIAB computer to try it now...'

Thanks Mac. I checked and my "allow rests on middle choruses" was already unchecked, so I guess that doesn't work for shots and holds. The dialog that goes with that checkbox says it is for soloing and it should do what I want it to do, but it doesn't make a difference whether I check or uncheck the box. Must be a bug with that function?

I just sent a sample file to support to see what they say.

when I uncheck mine in the song settings, it only allows the drums to play through in the middle choruses - the other instruments still do the rests and shots like in the first and last verses. Shouldn't they be playing too?

I think this might get resolved quicker if directed to pgmusic Support.

Email, with the file attached, or maybe the tollfree hotline.

Reference this thread, too.



--Mac

Matt,

Yes, you can copy the rests (shots, holds, rests, etc.) by: Menu/Edit/Copy Rests...

Then you get the dialog to copy just the rest info.

Richard

Oh yes, thanks Richard. We've gone a ways beyond that in this thread, and the real issue is shots and holds, rather than rests.

The interesting limiter I found in Edit,Copy Rests is that the source is only one measure. For example, if you have a four-bar pattern involving multiple rests, shots and/or holds, I don't think you can copy that whole pattern except by doing it measure by measure. In other words, you can copy the pattern in one measure to many, but not many to many.

Hi Matt,
Actually, you can copy many bars of rests, holds, shots, etc. (many-to-many) with the copy rests dialog.

------------------------
Example: I have at bar 2, 3, 4 |A..G / / /|Bm.../ / /|D.B / / /|

Copy rests dialog:

Copy rest from Bar # = 2

Num Bars to Copy = 3

Copy to Bar = 38

-----------------------

The result is that the shot, hold, and rest was copied to bar 33, 34, and 35 respectfully.

I did this on both a 3 chorus and single (unfolded) chorus.

One caveat: There must be chords on the target bars (bars without chords won't of course see any change; target bars with chords realize the copy result.

Granted, the Copy Rests dialog doesn't let you do non-linear (i.e., non-sequential)or nested copies or lists of bars (e.g, copy the ranges (bars) 10-12, 14,15, 16, to non-linear targets), but at least you can do multiple sequential bars to a target of the same rests, holds, shots. Now if the PG team wanted to incorporate nested copies that would be nice, but not sure how many would use that feature.

Funny, I tried that before posting and it failed. I'll try again, thanks.

Matt,

I tried a few other things as follows:

-------------
Copy Rests

Copy Rests from Bar # = 2
Num Bars to Copy = 3
Copy To Bar Num # = 17
Beat # = 1

Assuming bars 2, 3 and 4 are:

|G..b / C...s /|F.g / / /|G..p / / /|

and bars

17-20 are:

|G / F /|C / / / |F / / /|

you get

|G..b / F..b / / / |C..b / / /|F..b / / /|

Notice how only one beat gets copied. The Copy Rests dialog (pop-up) in the beats setting implies all 4 beats will be copied if left at one (1). However, when I tested at beat 3, it only copies the one beat (e.g., shot, hold, rest) to all target bars and beats with chords on them.


if bars 17-20 are (and beat in dialog = 1:

|G / F G|C / / / |F / / /|

you get

|G..b / F..b G..b|C..b / / /|F..b / / /|

Notice how the held chord in the source becomes a shot in the target (no pun intended)

Lastly, with the beat set to 3, and the same target bars, you get:

|G...s / F...s G...s|C...s / / /|F...s / / /|

Looks like the only way this works is if there is only one chord per bar for both source and target and on the same beat.

(sorry for the ASCII/TEXT presentation, but I don't have a good way to post screen shot links from the system I'm using for the forum)

-*********
A quick edit: The same thing happens with only one source and one target bar (meaning only 1 beat rest, hold, or shot has precedence).
**********-

Interesting... Not sure if this is what PG intended.

Richard

Well, consider that Shots and Holds are invoked by the beat, or more correctly stated, by the chord, which can be entered on the beat. After all, Shots and Holds are really invoked or explained in the Chord Settings window, regardless of whether or not you use a key shortcut to make one.

Maybe that's why the dialog in Song Settings specifies Rests and does not mention Shots and Holds.


The idea may be one for the Wishlist.


--Mac

Hi Mac,

I would agree ("Maybe that's why the dialog in Song Settings specifies Rests and does not mention Shots and Holds"), except per the BBW manual (2013, and prior) that states:

"With the menu selection Edit | Copy Rests you can copy the attributes of a chord over a range of other chords. Rests also include shots and held chords." Shots and holds are explicit in the manual.

Additionally, "Rest types" are defined as rest, shot, or hold in the manual and the "Chord Settings" dialog in the "Rests" region (not trying to be argumentative here...)

I know the operative word above is 'chord', but similarly so is 'rests, 'shots' and s held 'chords', that I interpret to mean plural. The pop-up over the "Copy Rests From Bar #" and "Num Bars to Copy" states:

"Range
The 'Copy Rests From Bar' and '# Bars To Copy' fields determine the range of bars to be copied"

The pop-up over the "Copy To Bar #" field states:

"Copy to Bar
The Rests that occur in the range above will be copied and added to any chords that are entered in this bar"

Note the phrase "range of bars to be copied", implying the source, I think. The phrase "Rests that occur in the range above..." to me indicates several rests, shots, holds.

The "Copy Rests" dialog "Copy Rests From Bar #" would indicate that all chord attributes (up to four chords) in a bar or in multiple bars can be copied, unless the "Beat #" field is set to other than 1 (the pop-up here states: "I you do not want the rests to be copied right from the beginning of the bar, you can choose which beat to begin on"), but that's not how it works since you only get one beat's worth, no matter what this field is set to. So I guess my question is:

How did PG intend this function to work? I know you and Matt (and several others) are one of the long-standing beta testers, so I'd be curious as to the requirements (spec) for the copy rests operation vs. the test process (yes, I know that won't be forth coming, but had to ask). Maybe the manual and dialog should read "Copy Rest From Bar #" (Rest being synonymous with shot, hold), instead of "Rests" if that's what PG means, because I'm not sure now.

Since the 'Copy Chords and or Melody' function gives you the choice of including/excluding bar settings, lyrics, etc., I thought (perhaps incorrectly) the 'Copy Rests' function was simply a streamlined way to copy one or more chord(s) and the attributes in a range of bars to a target range of bars The pop-ups in the dialog indicate that (to me at least).

Not knocking PG, as their products are top notch (using them since the 2004 editions). But I do think the documentation and the pop-ups don't match the function result for this feature.

Richard

Good find in the manual.

Sounds to me that something in the code got broken somewhere, perhaps this can now be classified as bona fide BUG.


--Mac

Thanks for your insight Mac. Out of curiosity, I also tried limited testing on BB 2006 and observed the same behavior. While the built-in help for 2006 is slightly less detailed, the pop-ups for each of the Copy Rests dialog is the same as 2013. Perhaps Peter can help us out on this.

Richard