|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808 |
Let's have some dialog on these subjects. Are they important to you and why.
Subject: three important things
Now that i have been using RB for a pretty long time. and i have had the opportunity to see how it works under different situation i have three things i think that are very important to the long term deveopment, that need to be addressed. I will list them and give a brief break down of the reasons
1. Node based automation. I know that this has been asked for for sometime now, but it is a really good add on feature to get done. Sure there is recorded fader moves, but those are not very precise, and requires several attempts to get it right, and thus make you not want to wrestle it. Adding a node based system that addresses Volume, Panning, FX, and even Aux Send would be very powerful on this system, and would keep more people from jumping to other programs to finish a song.
2. Assignable tracking for using multiple input interfaces. Yes the system automatically assigns the tracks in order, but this can be mess and frustrating. I used it last night and must say i was able to get it done, but being able to assign tracks would be killer. Let's look at why. Use my Tascam US-800, and Reaper, or Sonar for example. On my Tascam, i have the vocals run through the digital input on channels 7/8, and in Reaper i can open up two tracks an assign the one to input 1 for my guitar, and one to inputs 7/8 vo vocals, and all is great. In RB i have to hit audio record, and it takes up 8 tracks, and put the guitar on one, and the vocals on 7 and 8 so i have 5 dead tracks in the middle. Dead you say, why notjust record on them. Sorry you can't, as it pops up a warning that you can't record on a track that has data on it. What data, it is dead air, as that track had no actual input. So having a drop down menu in each track to assign which input you want would be killer. you could assign the guitar, and the bass, and the vocal in any configuation you want.
3. Please, finally address the VST timing issue. this has been asked for for a long time now, and should be handled. I really get the development of RTs and Super midi tracks, these things are great, and unique. having the VSTi issue settles, and the above automation system you could use VSTi's like Jamstix and automate the output allowing Jamstix to actually JAM! Imagine Super midi tracks laying down a great beat through Jamstix, and having the automation system send changing dynamics causing it to drop to sidestick in a soft place, and go to snare and ride during the harder parts of a song.
Last edited by Robh; 01/11/13 02:15 PM.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,129 |
Quote:
Imagine Super midi tracks laying down a great beat through Jamstix, and having the automation system send changing dynamics causing it to drop to sidestick in a soft place, and go to snare and ride during the harder parts of a song.
Now that sure sounds exciting, and is actually related to my posts regarding how to make the BB/RB/RT system sound more "human"- more groovin' with less programming.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,366
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,366 |
Quote:
Adding a node based system that addresses Volume, Panning, FX, and even Aux Send would be very powerful on this system, and would keep more people from jumping to other programs to finish a song.
RB already has what I think you mean by a node-based system. In addition to recording mixer moves in real time, you can use the PIANO ROLL window to draw the information onto each track. For MIDI tracks you can automate all the 127 MIDI controllers and for an audio track you can automate volume, pan and the aux sends. The information you draw will also be displayed by the mixer in real time.
ROG.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Quote:
Quote:
Adding a node based system that addresses Volume, Panning, FX, and even Aux Send would be very powerful on this system, and would keep more people from jumping to other programs to finish a song.
RB already has what I think you mean by a node-based system. In addition to recording mixer moves in real time, you can use the PIANO ROLL window to draw the information onto each track. For MIDI tracks you can automate all the 127 MIDI controllers and for an audio track you can automate volume, pan and the aux sends. The information you draw will also be displayed by the mixer in real time.
ROG.
Right you are. I do sort of wish that folks would stop trying to change RB/BIAB into just another main stream prog. I like it as it is.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109 |
there is a difference between node based control and what is in RB, although they are similar.
In RB, in order to create a smooth volume transition in piano roll, you'd have to draw a line, which would then become a whole bunch of incremental volume events. If you need to edit them later, you may have to edit each one separately or draw a new line.
Node based controls are point-to-point splining. A smooth fade could be accomplished with one click, placing a single node (point) wherever you want the volume to end up. Then the DAW interpolates the distance between nodes in X and Y axes and gives you a smooth transition between nodes.
Nodes are easy to use because they require fewer moves to create them and less work to edit them. For example, if you want to change the rate of volume change, just drag the one node to a new location. And you can very easily locate your destination on a precise value (as opposed to drawing a line with a mouse, a skill I do not possess.)
I like RBs piano roll; but I will say that node based envelopes are easy to use and easy to like
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808 |
As far as changing it. I don't want major change, just a slight change to make the system better. John I understand your view, but you like me use RB mostly for live backing, and as that it is fine as it is. But if you want to use it a full featured DAW it is still missing a few features. This is one. Sure you can record moves or draw in the piano roll, but just use a true automation system, and you fine the deep level of fine adjustment is better and easier.
I ask what is wrong with that?
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,366
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 3,366 |
I'm forced to wonder exactly what kind of music people are recording which needs so much precise dynamic automation. Sure, if you do a lot of electronic dance music, but then you really don't want to be using RB for that anyway.
I find that RB/PT works fine for most recording and, like John, I wouldn't want to try to change it into something it was never intended to be. If you listen to my current track on the User Showcase (She'll Never Know) it's a completely static mix. Perhaps someone can post a track which needed the level of automation we're talking about, so that I can understand better why you need it.
ROG.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808 |
ROG, while i completely understand your thoughts, it is not about making RB something it is not. It is about refining features. The current system is okay, and does work. But not being able to see the wave file as you adjust the automation is like being blind in a way. You have to do a lot of fine tuning to get the start and stop exactly where you want. and making small adustments is harder to do. Sure it can be used, but having a line thru the wave file and being able to add nodes exactly where you want, without guessing or being pretty close, would be a very big advantage.
Since the ability to make volume, pan, and aux send changes exists i imagine it is less of a change to refine the way it is implimented. Having done this kind of automation in Cakewalk, Reaper, MTS, Sonar, Acid for the last 10 years i am acutely aware of the difference. I have used Multitrackstudio for years and it is certainly not main stream. It's automation is similar to RB in that you add a fader plug into the tracks aux send windoww, which opens up separately over the track. Kind of like opening the piano roll. The advantage is that you can see the wave file ghosted behind the fader line. Maybe the route PG could look at is to ghost the wave file in the piano roll, and allow the automation chages to be made over that. change the physical view of the automated chages to dots with lines between, rather than the way it fills in between the points so that you can see what your doing better. Or make the current automation more transparent so that you can see thru it.This way the system stays the same but it is refined.
I am as staunch a supporter of RB and not trying to make it like the main stream as you and any. I have spoken out strongly in the past about leaving the GUI alone, and work on refining the tools. To me the automation, the VSTi timing, and the assignable input feature need to be refined. The are very useful tools.
You ask a great question though, what kind of music do I do. Mostly folk. country, rock, and pop. I have maybe done two electronica type songs way early when learning to play with the Acid Pro software.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 8,109 |
My recurring take on this recurring topic is that
1) because music making is modular and involves the ability to use many tools, it doesn't matter anymore if one tool can do everything, as long as a tool to do that exists
2) what DOES matter is that your tool brings something unique to the equation that isn't available elsewhere, so everybody has an incentive to buy your tool even if they already own many other similar tools.
3) If PGMusic were trying to be all things to all musicians, they wouldn't take such pains to integrate 3rd party solutions, like Amplitube, SampleTank and the drag & drop feature that makes it convenient to move a project to the DAW of your choice. To me that looks like they are specifically focusing on proprietary development rather than on re-inventing features that are already abundantly available in other products.
Robh, you mentioned several other software packages that you already own and which already do what you want. The tools exist for your workflow to look like this:
a) generate song in BIAB
b) move song to RB to add additional real tracks, trim sections so instruments flow in and out of the mix etc
c) export to other DAW in order to use the mixing tools that you prefer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,986
PG Music Developer
|
|
PG Music Developer
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,986 |
Quote:
you can't, as it pops up a warning that you can't record on a track that has data on it.
Not sure what you mean by not being allowed to record on a track with data on it. If the track is an audio track you can record on it even if it already has audio data on it.
Jeff Yankauer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
Quote:
Quote:
you can't, as it pops up a warning that you can't record on a track that has data on it.
Not sure what you mean by not being allowed to record on a track with data on it. If the track is an audio track you can record on it even if it already has audio data on it.
I do this all the time! 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 272
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 272 |
Quote:
ROG, while i completely understand your thoughts, it is not about making RB something it is not. It is about refining features. The current system is okay, and does work. But not being able to see the wave file as you adjust the automation is like being blind in a way. You have to do a lot of fine tuning to get the start and stop exactly where you want. and making small adustments is harder to do. Sure it can be used, but having a line thru the wave file and being able to add nodes exactly where you want, without guessing or being pretty close, would be a very big advantage.
I am as staunch a supporter of RB and not trying to make it like the main stream as you and any. I have spoken out strongly in the past about leaving the GUI alone, and work on refining the tools. To me the automation, the VSTi timing, and the assignable input feature need to be refined. The are very useful tools.
Robh, I totally agree with you. RB is a very good DAW, but it's unique features aside, what is wrong with refining it and making it more appealing and full-featured so we have fewer reasons to jump to another DAW? Node-based editing and making RB able to interact with timing-based plug-ins like Jamstix would in my mind be significant improvements, and additional reasons to keep purchasing the upgrades. When making decisions each year on what to spend one's money on for software upgrades, why not cement BIAB/RB's place at the top?
Terry
BIAB/RB 2018 PlusPak. Dell Inspiron23 running Win10, 12GB RAM, 2.5GHz i7, Presonus AudioBox USB interface.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808 |
i in no way want RB to be the swiss army knife of DAWs, a gazzion features, and none of them work well. Yes i have other DAWs, but truth be told i hardly ever crack them open anymore because i do pretty much everything in RB and BiaB. I have not tracked a tune in Sonar, Reaper, or MTS in over a year. I love RB. I do not want to keep paying for upgrade on two or three platforms. I do not want Rb to leave it's path and try to swallow up all other DAWs. I just want to see a few of the features it already has be refined a bit. It has automation, lets make it just a little bit better. It has VSTi implimentation, let's make it a little bit better. it has multitrack input capability, lets make it a little bit better. Then you have a very rich and powerful program that does things others can't even imagine.
Jeff thanks for weighing in, and you question is valid. When i track the guitar on input 1, and the vocals on input 7/8 it fills in the middle tracks and when i tried to track over them it said that those tracks were taken. Now maybe i can still track right over that, but my thought was i couldn't. I will try that tommorrow. I think a great refinement would be to make each track assignable for whatever inputs you have available.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,986
PG Music Developer
|
|
PG Music Developer
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,986 |
In the Audio Drivers dialog, you could only select 1/2 and 7/8 and then there would not be blank tracks between them when recording.
Jeff Yankauer
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,808 |
Jeff, guess what? You might need to be renamed "Captain Obvious" I swear man, how could i miss that absolutely obvious solution? I must be under the influence of some kind of weird cold remedy! ( the night time stuff is the best ever) but i digress. No really thanks, i guess i am having brain issues, as that will work perfectly.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
I've been looking at all the online videos of the new Cubase 7, Abelton Live 9, Digital Perfomer 8, Pro Tools 11 and Sonar X2. The average user on this forum has no idea what these programs are truly capable of until they spend some serious time watching those vids. I am amazed by what they can do. It's all too easy to simply say RB does everything you need when you don't really know what you "need" until you become aware of what's available from watching these vids and develop a feel for how some of these things would help you. I've seen things I never thought of but once I saw it I can see the value such as Digital Performers Comp Tracks feature or Live 9's very hot new audio to midi conversion feature. There's some very cool stuff going on out there guys but you have to open your eyes to see it.
Real Band is free to most users while the big name DAW's are around $400-600. Given the price point it's unreasonable to try to make RB even remotely competitive with those programs but I completely agree a few seemingly basic enhancements would help a lot especially the VST/Jamstix thing. A big one is hardware control and another one is current ASIO support. We have to tell people occasionaly when they get a message saying another program is using the ASIO driver to close WMP or Biab or whatever because ASIO is a one trick pony. The problem is that's not true, ASIO 2.0 came out 3-4 years ago that allows for multiple hosts using it and now they just released ASIO 3. People using these other DAW's don't have that issue because they're all ASIO 2.0 compliant.
Without revamping the whole program, just these small fixes would help in keeping it current. Of course I say small, it could be these things are not small at all from a coding standpoint. As it is, being able to open Biab files and generate RT/RD's is huge for RB and will make it worthwhile using for a long time.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Then again, I've turned out some rather stellar sounding work using Powertracks and later on, Realband.
I just think that it is great to have so many available options as to softwares.
Find what YOU want and like, don't spend too much time on that decision, spend too much time on working with the software you've chosen and GET FINISHED PRODUCT IN THE CAN, I say.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
Whether you're exploring new features, checking out the latest RealTracks or Style PAKs, this is your go-to guide for Band-in-a-Box® 2026.
Check out this forum post for "One Stop Shopping" of our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Videos!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 100 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac and save up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special offer—available until May 15, 2026. Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page to explore all available upgrade options.
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
Our Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK are loaded with amazing add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is included with most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac packages, but you can unlock even more—including 20 unreleased RealTracks—by upgrading to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49.
Holiday Weekend Hours
As we hop into the Easter weekend, here are our holiday hours:
April 3 (Good Friday): 8:00 AM – 4:00 PM PDT
April 4 (Saturday): Closed
April 5 (Easter Sunday): Closed
April 6 (Easter Monday): Open regular hours
Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,289
Posts802,775
Members40,083
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean