PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Enter C+9 Chord - BiaB 2013

I am using BiaB 2013 and would like to enter a C+9 chord, (C,E,G,D).

From the manual: (Quote) - Use "=" for "+"; the program automatically converts "=" to "+" so that chords like C+7 can be entered without using the shift key. (Unquote)

From this I typed: C=9 but nothing happens. As an experiment I then tried the example in the manual, C=7, still nothing. I tried this with and without Number Lock and using both sets of keyboard numbers.

Okay, I know that I could enter the Cmaj9 chord (C,E,G,B,D). Some might debate that this would do but this is not what I want and, in any case, the manual does suggest that C+9 is available.

Can anyone help with this please.

Thanks

Edit: I just installed the latest update (366) and still can't enter this chord.

Not on my Biab computer, but did you try C9+?

Hello Tommyc and thanks for your reply.

Yes, I can enter C9+ but this is based on an augmented chord (C,E,G#,Bb,D).

So if the C+7 or C+9 won't enter for you as well, it seems that I am entering correctly.

I think you have to put in Cadd9.

Different Styles or different Realtracks may just handle the Cadd2 differently and you might be pleasantly surprised to find that some of them do indeed play the 2 at least an octave up. This is also somewhat genre dependent. For example, a jazz piano track that features open chording is likely to spread those notes out anyway. Guitar is likely to put the nine on or at least near the top, even though its called a 2 here.

Fakebook stuff is not standardized. Whereas one author might use "C+9" to indicate Cadd9, that usage disallows being able to write other of the true 9 extensions.

C+9 is rather ambiguous, I would be wanting to know if the writer was calling for a Sharp 9, and Augmented with added 9 or the more conventional addition of the Dom 7 in there as well.

Because there is no defacto standard for fake chording, though, things are what they are.

I like the fact that Band in a Box tries to use the most descriptive ways of labeling the chords, though. That takes at least one ambiguous problem away from the thing.


--Mac

In version 2013, Cadd9 and Cadd2 both give Cadd2.

Also, C2 will play the same thing. In earlier versions of BIAB**, Cadd2 and Cadd9 were changed to C2.

**Version 2012 or earlier.

Maybe you mean, they sound the same? Perhaps I wasn't clear. You do know that the file, pgshortc.txt shows that entering 'add2' and 'add9' converted automatically to 2, correct? And that this behavior changed in a recent version? This thread began by the OP knowing what he wanted and how to spell it, but not how to enter it.

I have already reported the need to update the contents of pgshortc.txt to Support.

Look at what you put down for the differences between versions.

I re-read my posts, and I don't see any mistake. The only thing I don't remember is which was the BIAB version where the behavior changed. It was within a year, I think. What do you think is not correct that I wrote, Mac?

Thanks.

EDIT - I found it. Support for the 'add2' chord was new in version 2012.5. Since 2012.5, things have behaved differently than before 2012.5, as I described. If one tried to study pgshortc.txt to find out what's going on, one would be misled.

I am an all Real Tracks user - mostly jazz stuff - and have never been able to get BiaB to generate a Cadd9 (CEGD). I have typically used C2 in its place, accepting that the resultant sound isn't exqctly what I wanted, e.g., with the D in the next higher octave. Since I just recently installed BiaB 2013, I just re-tried Cadd9 (which immediately changed to Cadd2 upon entry) with several differnt RealTracks piano tracks (#771, 1729, 1549, 1998 and 1610), and it generated neither 2nds or a 9ths. It generated all simple triads! So Cadd9 apparently doesn't work - at least not with RealTracks.

If the pianist who played the Realtrack did not play any Cadd9 chords (or C3 either for that matter) then there won't be any from the pool for BB to select. It picks the next possible alternative that has as many of the notes as possible in it.

771 is Acoustic Jazz Swing piano. The Cadd9 is an unlikely chord to find under that specified genre.

1729 is a Pop Ballad piano. While there may be examples of Pop Ballad with the add9 chord in them, well, if there aren't any in the raw Realtracks recording to pick from, then there can't be any in the generated track either.

1549 is Country Swing piano. Add9 is not typically played in that genre either.

1998 is not listed in my Realtracks picker. Don't know if it is because I may not have it (supposed to have them all here) or if that isn't a typo in the post.

1610 is another Pop Piano style, same as above would apply, the Add9 chord again isn't a typical for the genre.

When I require specified chord stacks on the piano, I don't hesitate to try using one of the MIDI jazz piano styles that are more able to replicate those specified chords and then add Realtracks to substitute for other instruments such as Bass, etc. With a half decent MIDI synth, piano is one of the more realistic of MIDI sounds. Mixing the MIDI piano in with one or more Realtracks takes it up a notch in terms of realistic sound as well, yielding a sum that is greater than the parts.

Listening to the "raw" Realtrack files in your folders, you can hear every chord and note played in the pool that BB must use in order to create the Track. If you don't hear any add9 chords, BB cannot make them using that particular raw Realtrack recording. This is just the way Realtracks work.

Doesn't make sense to blanket declare being an "all RealTracks user" to me, maybe you ought to try MIDI piano in a few cases where the RealTrack can't do exactly what you need it to do.

On the other hand, none of the Piano Realtracks you mention are Jazz Realtracks, other than that one Swing example. You might choose from the Jazz piano Realtracks and see if you can find one that will work with your chosen song as well as being able to play the required chord the way you want to hear it. Octave of the 9 may be a nonissue - consider that a guitar player (and even a pianist) can elect to put that nine *anywhere* as regards the octave and it will still fill the air with the "add9" sound simply because there won't be a seventh involved. If there is a piano and a guitar playing the rhythm comp together, the 9 played on the guitar may be an octave or more lower in pitch than the one played by the pianist at the same time. But if you need to specify with Band in a Box, then you need to find Realtracks and MIDI styles that will actually play the add9 in order to do that.


--Mac

For any RealTracks that were released before 2012.5, an "add2" or "add9" chord would not have been recorded. In that case I would suggest these chords because they are usually recorded:

CMaj9 (this will include a 7th)
C9 (this will include a flat 7th)
C2 aka Csus2 (no 7th but will work well if you don't need the 3rd)


And as Mac explained, the octave of the 2nd will depend on the player's style.

Mac and Blake - thanks for the replies.
Mac: I hadn't thought about the fact that for RealTracks, the Cadd9 would most likely not have been played by the artist when recording a genre for which that chord would not be typical. When I say "I am an all RealTracks user", I mean that I attempt to build every tune using RealTracks. But I do occasionally use some MIDI voices (usually acoustic or electric bass or acoustic piano) to "fill in" parts of a tune where I can't direct RealTracks to play someting precisely as I want it, and I also use MIDI in tunes where I want strings. But since most of my BiaB work is to produce jazz backup tracks for live performance (my wife sings and I play a Yamaha WX-5), I find that that RealTracks gives me the realistic sound I want 99% of the time. By the way, RealTrack #1998 was released with BiaB 2013. It's Miles doing a great funky jazz sound on an acoustic piano!

Blake: Thanks for the answer re: the fact that Cadd9 would only work in RealTracks released in 2012.5 or later. I tried it out with a couple of the jazz piano and guitar tracks that were released in 2013 for which a Cadd9 would be considered an approriate chord (1987 and 1991) and it worked great.