PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Issues with using the Roland FP 7 piano and recording in BIAB

Hi all,
Help ! I have done all I can and tweaked all kinds of things (incl. midi Options etc.) and still can't get this right.

Hooked up the FP7 via USB cable to my note book. While playing a backng trk in BIAB I want to record (midi) as I am playing the FP7. Its recording on the Melody track, but...
Issues...
1. Volume is very low. Upped the Volume Boost to 50! Still no good.
2. Hearing double (echo) notes..a very bad piano sound echoed by a strings sound. The FP7 is set to Grand Piano. Tried many avenues of Local ON Local Off etc. No success.
3. Latency .....is just horrible. Its so bad, that its impractical to actually play along.

This may not be an easy issue for someone to provide an answer. Is there someplace I can go to for more help?

Does the FP7 contain its own MIDI synth voices? If so, you may be hearing the realtime hardware synth from the FP7 audio output at the same time as you are triggering a software synth inside BB. Use the hardware synth only for absolute zero latency. This is done by making sure that the "Use DXi" button in the BB MIDI/Audio selection window is unchecked and that the MIDI synth listing for your FP7 is highlighted in the RH pane of the same window. Easy-Peasy. And the internal sounds are likely much better anyway.

Here is a cut and pasted answer for using software DXi MIDi synths in realtime with BB:


Sounds like you must be attempting to use one of the software synthesizers in realtime.

This can be done, I do it all the time when traveling and away from my hardware MIDI synths, but it takes a bit of knowledge and setup to make it work properly.

First, the easiest softsynth to get to play in realtime is one of the DXi GM synths. This would include the older VSC/DXi synth, which won't run on newer OS's, which is why pgmusic also supplies that Coyote WT DXi synth.

In the MIDI/Audio selection window, found under the Options menu, check the "Use DXi synth" in the lower RH section.
The Synth selection window should open. If you already have that Use DXi checked, the synth selection window does not open automatically, hit the button immediaely underneath the two checkmark areas to open that selection window.


The top dropdown slot in the selection window is the place to invoke your installed DXi GM MIDI synth. Use the dropdown arrow to find and select one. If you don't see any there, it is because you have yet to install one. The installers can be found on your band in a box install disk, be it usb drive or dvd disk set or download files.

When you properly select the DXi synth, the DXi synth's control panel should pop up, replacing the previous window. Just hit the X in the top right corner of the synth's control panel and it should reutrn you to the MIDI/Audio setup window.

Now take a look at the LH pane in the MIDI/Audio window. It should show the keyboard controller there. If you don't see your usb keyboard controller listed there, it likely is because you did not connect the keyboard's USB to computer BEFORE starting up BB. Shut down BB, wait a few secs for full shutdown, then connect the keyboard USB, wait a bit for your system to recognize it, then restart BB and after it is fully loaded, return to the MIDI/Audio window. Click on the listing for the keyboard in the LH pane to highlight it, that is how we select the INPUT for MIDI. The output can be highlighting anything at this point, as once the "Use DXi" is checked, that RH pane is basicall ignored.

Underneath the "Use DXi" checkbox is another, "Route MIDI Thru to..." for realtime playing via the DXi synth, be sure to UNcheck this command.

Now you must invoke ASIO sound drivers in order to solve the latency problem.

That is done in the same MIDI/Audio window by hitting the Audio Settings button and looking for the ASIO button and dropdown selection at top right. Find the ASIO driver for your soundcard and select it by highlighting like before. Hit okay.

Depending upon the ASIO driver your aftermarket soundcard uses, you may not be able to play the keyboard and hear the sounds immediately upon exiting the MIDI/Audio setup window and returning to the main BB screen. This is often due to a focus problem with the driver. Just hit Play or GenPlay if using BB2013, same thing, and then you can check to see how he keyboard is working as that song plays. Hit Stop, and it should continue to play for the rest of the particular session. If it works that way for you, then that is how to get it to work again in succeeding sessions if it does not play right away after BB loads.

*ASIO sound driver

*DXi MIDI synth

*"Route MIDI Thru to..." UNchecked

*USB keyboard controller seen and highlighted in LH pane.

This sounds complicated, but after you figure it out it isn't all that bad or hard to reinvoke again.

--Mac

Hey Mac,
Thanks so much. Followed almost all yr instructions. It is playing 90% better now. Couldn't have done it without your instructions. Its 11pm for me and I've been at BIAB all day. Time to turn in.
I will send you a summary tomorrow. If you could please look at it then.
I am too afraid to click on ASIO tonight
Cheers,
Chris

Hi Mac,....and any other piano players out there...

Continuing with this issue which I am sure is top of mind for many new users...

Background :
The task : Record midi piano while BIAB is playing the backing.

The issues were:
1. Volume is very low. Upped the Volume Boost to 50! Still no good.
2. Hearing double (echo) notes..a very bad piano sound echoed by a strings sound. The FP7 is set to Grand Piano. Tried many avenues of Local ON Local Off etc. No success.
3. Latency .....is just horrible. Its so bad, that its impractical to actually play along.

Following your instructions, it recorded ok. But the issues remain.
Your instructions helped in actually hearing the piano playing with BIAB while the FP7 LOCAL was set to Off. And the latency improved a bit. But was still very distracting. Your 'order of doing things' instructions I believe are very important.

Re the Latency issue...
In Using ASIO4All, it kept saying that the "output Audio driver is not connected".
Solutions about the use of ASIO found on youtube were 'invasive" or not free. e.g. Uninstall your default player..which I was not going to follow without knowing the implications on the rest of my notebook!

So...

I found this in an old thread in Tips and Tricks.

"ASIO Drivers are not connected fix"
Rob - PG Music
PG Music Staff

Registered: 26/11/09
Please note* This fix will only work if you have a DXI synth available and selected for use.
1. Close the PG Music Product.

2. Download and install Loopbe1 virtual midi driver from here http://www.nerds.de/data/setuploopbe1.exe

3. Navigate the Midi Setup area
- Band-in-a-Box -> Opt | Midi Audio Driver Setup
- PowerTracks/RealBand -> Options | Preferences | Midi Tab (6)| Midi Devices |

4. Choose Loopbe1 as the output midi driver and ensure a DXi Synth is selected and in use and click OK.

5. Close the program and restart it, navigate to the Audio Preferences
- Band-in-a-Box -> Opt | Preferences | Audio | Audio Driver Type ASIO | Audio Drivers Button.
- Power Tracks/RealBand ->Options | Preferences | Audio Tab (2)| Audio Driver Type ASIO | Audio Drivers button

6. If your ASIO audio drivers still say not connected switch back to MME close the program and restart the computer and perform step 5 again after restarting the machine.

I followed this. (Didnn't have to do step 6.) (Loopbe1 is free for non-monetory use btw). Took away the Latency issue completely. And along with it naturally, the echoed double notes issue. Terrific.

Can we now address the Low Volume Issue please. I have the volume boost set to 100 to be in line with the backing instruments. Isn't that a bit extreme? And it really doesn't sound rich/warm the way the FP7 sounds. Very tinny. Any suggestions?

The instrument keeps defaulting to jazz guitar and I have to manually change it back to Acoustic Piano every time I press play. Why?

Am i having fun? You bet I am . And BIAB is terrific.
Chris

The real question is, with an FP-7 and its fantastic Roland GM2 hardware synth with modeling built into it, why are you messin' around with DXi software synths and ASIO4ALL?

Connect the MIDI part of the FP-7 to the computer using the USB cable. Do this *before* starting up BiaB.

Connect the L and R Line Outputs of the FP-7 to the L and R Line Inputs of your sound device. (Note: if you are using a laptop that has no Line Input, as many of them don't, you should look into a decent aftermarket USB sound device that does have Line Inputs on it).

Inside BB, in the MIDI/Audio selection window, select the FP-7 by highlighting it in the LH pane. Select the FP-7 as Output as well in the RH pane.

UNCHECK the "Use DXi" there.

Now, using nothing more than MME or Windows sound drivers, you have the best of all worlds available, the very rich sounding FP-7 synth, plus near-ZERO latency. That is because your CPU is no longer also being tasked with generating the MIDI sounds, that happens with the CPU inside the Roland. Of course, you could then use ASIO sound drivers as well, if you like, but the latency problem will be eliminated no matter what sound drivers used.


--Mac

Thanks Thailoneus and Mac for that detailed information.

Mac, Mac, Mac,
What can I say? You are an absolute genius!!! Thank you sir.
Last night my brain was fried after 2 weeks of struggling with these issues. So decided that I would take a break from it and sank a couple of Gibson's instead.
This morning...I simply followed the instructions in your last post and it all works. Whoo Hoo.

Summary of my findings are:

1. Set the Volume boost (in Midi Options menu) to about 25 only if reqd. If higher, the sounds start getting distorted and very tinny. So now the Volume issue is resolved.
2. Using the connections you detailed, I can use the FP 7 speakers or Studio monitors or both (my choice) by turning the FP7 speaker switch on its rear panel to OFF. If by chance there is no sound, also check the LOCAL OFF/ON status on the FP7.
3. Thought should be applied to the instruments you want in the Thru and Melody channels. i.e. The FP7 instrument being sounded is on the Thru Channel. So if simply "playing along" with BB backing, Set the Thru instrument to what you want to hear. If you are "recording" with BB backing, check what instrument you want recorded on the Melody channel because that is what will be recorded by BB, while the instrument on the Thru channel is what you will hear through the monitors.
4. I now have solutions for either using MME OR ASIO4all, although as you say why muck around with ASIO when MME now works superbly.
5. There is NO latency to my ears!!

Now, to one underlying burning question which I know you can answer to close this thread....
The USE DXI button is UNCHECKED.
The tracks consist of 1)RTs, 2)MIDI tracks and 3)the FP7 on the Thru track. What is producing the sounds for each of them?

Cheers
Chris
p.s. I can now get back to playing the sax and pursuing the mysteries of EQ and Compression:)
p.p.s. After you answer the question, I will request a Mod to move this to Tips/Tricks as well as consider it for the FAQ.

If you have it set up correctly, and it sounds like you do, any MIDI tracks are now being sent to the FP7 as MIDI data on the MIDI input. Thus the GM2 synth inside the FP7 are the sounds for any MIDI tracks you hear, including the Thru.

Check the PGMusic Patchmap page to see if there is a patchmap published there for the FP7. If there is, download the Patchmap and simply drop it into your BB folder. Then use the Patchmap selection tool found in the MIDI/Audio selection window to locate and pick that patchmap to use with your BB.

Then, you will be able to use the little MIDI dropdown slot in the main window to pick from the 128 Standard GM voices, or hit the + sign to the right to bring up ALL the voice choices in your fine FP7.

If there is no patchmap published on the PGMusic resource page, we have a second option, development created a wizard that instantly will convert the patchmap .INS type files that Cakewalk and Sonar use. That allows us to go out on the web using websearch engines and search for an FP7 patchmap .INS cakewalk file, download it and then convert it instantly to work with Band in a Box with one mouse button push. This takes advantage of the much larger Cakewalk/Sonar user base.


--Mac

Hi Mac,
Pl rem to read my PM.

Next steps...
When I click on the instrument dropdown menu, I see all the instruments I guess GM.
When I click on the GM2 button, I see GM and GM2 instruments and I can select any.
When I click on the + button, it asks me for a .PAT file which I don't yet have. Based on your text in " " below, I downloaded a .INS file into the bb folder. Is this the file that needs to be converted to a .PAT file? If so How?

"If there is no patchmap published on the PGMusic resource page, we have a second option, development created a wizard that instantly will convert the patchmap .INS type files that Cakewalk and Sonar use. That allows us to go out on the web using websearch engines and search for an FP7 patchmap .INS cakewalk file, download it and then convert it instantly to work with Band in a Box with one mouse button push. This takes advantage of the much larger Cakewalk/Sonar user base."

I can't find a patchmap for the FP7 in the PGM resource page. So went to Roland..
Will this be it?
http://www.roland.com/support/article/?q=downloads&p=FP-7
Its an .ins file and does not say its supported on Windows 7.

I hope I am not bugging you too much. The great thing is that you are taking me to very interesting places. And if you instruct me with baby steps, I WILL follow:)
Thanks.
Chris

Yes. It is not an executable file; the version of Windows does not matter.

So how do I tell BB to use it?

FAQ #42 has the instructions.

Thanks Matt. Didn't know there were 2 FAQ sections.

Oh, there are several dozen. This is the one I meant: http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq28.htm#42

I was using a phone browser before and could not copy the link.