|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 167
Apprentice
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 167 |
Part 1)Sorry if this question has been asked before,tried searching but could not get results I was after. How come it's not possible to sample from the live tracks and use the individual notes in a song instead of the pre-made phases.If for example I use Sample Modelings Sax and Trumpet and they are made from sampled instruments why not the real tracks that PG Music makes? Is it really that impossible to do or would it just take to much time and not be financially feasible.
Part 2)Would it be possible to turn loops of real instruments into real tracks? I mean is there a way to save the file and place it for use real tracks to use? Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,057 |
Two good questions.
The first question has indeed been asked frequently. To make a long answer short, suppose you could sample one note for use in the melody. What would be its attack, duration, timbre, vibrato or volume? I don't think it's as easy as it first appears.
Users do not have the tools and instructions to do your second question at this time. It is a reasonable request, though, as this is possible for RealDrums so one would think it could be for RealTracks. As a practical matter, we cannot read the instruction files for RealTracks; the ones for RealDrums are simple ASCII text. Just a guess, but perhaps PG Music wishes to keep its very successful process proprietary.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,815 |
(1) already exists -- it's called midi (ha, ha). RealTracks derives its "real" sound by recording a bunch of phrases that take care all of those things that Matt mentioned up above for you. As you get closer and closer to one note, you move closer and closer to what midi does with its use of samples.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
(1) already exists -- it's called midi (ha, ha). RealTracks derives its "real" sound by recording a bunch of phrases that take care all of those things that Matt mentioned up above for you. As you get closer and closer to one note, you move closer and closer to what midi does with its use of samples. Exactly! Consider this: You already have various MIDI samplers that are made by sample recording separate notes of a real instrument and then you are enabled to assign a note value for each note, assembling that into a performance. But you also know that MIDI quite often cannot sound realistic. The PGMusic Realtracks get around that problem by incorporating groups of notes - musical phrases - that were recorded in realtime by live very high quality musicians and the software is enabled to select from those phrases and place them intelligently overtop of your entered chord changes. Trying to frorce Realtracks to play your desired notes, one at a time, is therefore a self-defeating prospect. On the other hand, there are quite a few MIDI instruments that can sound realistic enough, the Keyboards, Melodic Percussion Instruments, etc. that can, when presented along with a few Realtracks and the Realdrums, sound very real indeed. And depending upon your selection of the MIDI synth or sampler involved, you can generate some very convincing work. Even using MIDI guitars in the case of some synths. --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378 |
I too wanted... hoped that BB/RB would be able to do this.....I wanted it to be able to play a melody of my choosing.... but it doesn't exactly do that so I work within it's limitations and my imagination and efforts to get better than the average result from it. The fact of the matter is that if you render the same real track several different times, lets say 5 times.... you WILL have 5 completely different tracks with many variations between them but also with great similarity between them. Some parts will tend to be nearly identical between the tracks and other areas will be totally different. Case in point: The Best Christmas http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11971116 It's a song I wrote some time back now.... but in it, I have 3 piano tracks and if I'm not mistaken there are 5 guitar tracks.... both piano and guitar were rendered multiple times from the same real track..... and looking at the screen shot you can see the differences. The piano fills and the guitar fills and solo are constructed with creative editing to achieve the desired result.  hope this helps.... it takes some work but you can get some interesting stuff with some effort. If you absolutely have to have something that follows your notes.... such as a sax or piano, or anything else.... midi is the way to go, short of getting a live player to play the part for you. There are some really nice (but costly) sampled synths out there which are specific to certain instruments.... simply do a Bing search and you'll find them. Asking on various recording forum sites can often turn up player with the specialty instrument you seek and who have a decent home studio and most importantly are willing to help for free. Check on the forum sites for all the major DAW manufacturers. Another song I did: Missing Person http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=11962059 has 3 musicians from 3 different states.... fiddle from Vermont, vocals, guitars and mando (me) from NC, and vocals, bass, guitar, dobro from Georgia.... just ask and people will jump in on a project that interests them. We have never met nor talked on the phone....everything was through the forum and PM, and email.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 10/27/13 08:07 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 794 |
You can always import the sample (mind you they are quite buried in the BB RT folder - but the samples can be located) into a DAW and do either the volume envelope as GH pictured or even chop the sample down into individual notes if you wanted, remove those you don't and then replace the edited sample back into the BB RT folder. Ensuring the exact same name (including case) is used. They are, after all, only WMA files and can be manipulated as such. Sonar can export WMA files, as can most other DAW's I would imagine. Of course you would copy out the original to another location first 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18 |
Just for the record, the "sample modelling" products are not related to sampling as the operative word. Yes, it was likely (just guessing really) analysis of samples that produced their proprietary methods. But "modelling", as in generating a model algorithmically, is the operative word.
Apparently Sample Modelling modeled many sonic timbre signatures that are as variable as can be, based on the physical changes that happen during an actual sax, trombone or trumpet note or phrase. Then they wrote algorithms to achieve these sound signatures or change processes.
Pianoteq (a 20 meg program, no typical sample library) also has a real time modelling method, but for pianos and other keyboard instruments. MIDI can be used to play these instruments but each accepts other variables from what i could glean from videos. Pianoteq uses adjustments prior to play that create very distinct intruments.
Sample modelling's offerings are more zeroed in on a particular individual horn, and apparently, allow editing of performance data. But they both probably allow controller access during performance. I am not sure exactly how MIDI or proprietary controllers come into play in real time versus on the piano roll editor of these products. Getting a nearly perfect performance, for horns or sax, might require piano roll editing.
Anyway, if realistic instruments were to be had by basic sampling with loops and simple envelopes, these would be the more boring of the bunch (Why u look at me dis way xylophone? I don't mean to insult you xylophone! Marimba, get hold of yourself.). Even the combination of vibrato rate and depth makes it hard for a sampler to approach violin or cello perfectly. Sax and trombone and trumpet are as hard if not a lot harder since the overtones are varying not as would be reproducable by filtering, but radically, and in contrast to a linear envelope, these changes happen as a player blows harder or forms lips in different direction, which he/she can do early or late in the note or phrase. I really don't know with any certainty or precision about this stuff; if i'm wrong please correct me! But its fun for me to think about which is why i put my 2 ¢ in.
I don't work for a virtual musical instrument modelling company.
Last edited by curiousCat; 10/29/13 01:16 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 10,378 |
Curious cat nailed the problem...
You can replicate the notes with ease using a variety of methods.... however, the human feel, the characteristic of the instrument and how it's played.... also known as ARTICULATION ... that, is the hard part of replication with patches and samples.
Band in a Box and Real tracks does a decent job in many respects with this issue.... but when you start chopping things apart and putting them back together.... the result will not have the proper articulation.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 167
Apprentice
|
|
OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 167 |
I use both Sibelius and Finale and both programs have features that try to emulate a real person playing just like BIAB does with embellishment. Could they not improve on this feature by making say the melody do whatever the instrument that you choose play, be it guitar or piano of a Sax so that the chosen instrument would only have articulations that are meant for that instrument. Like a bend in a guitar or an overblow for a sax. Just wondering
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 18 |
In the case of modelers that augment the function of MIDI for musicians, pianoteq has a great page on there web site that some may find helpful. Its a list of things that their little program adjusts that you will recognize are not either in the realm of MIDI or the realm of samples: https://www.pianoteq.com/listen_featuresTonight I bought the stage version of this piano to try out with BIAB. Mainly because I got tired of my east west grand piano, which uses 2 gigs of memory. From the audio examples on this page I can tell I am going to be enthralled with this program, which is only $130. Here's more explanation of the difference between a sampler and such a modeling program. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTbXnbfymdcStill wish I could afford sample modelling's offerings but I think its like $800 for everything...
Last edited by curiousCat; 10/30/13 07:57 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,390
Posts778,611
Members39,644
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean