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It's my opinion that quoting scripture to those who don't trust it is rather pointless.
Scott, are you rationalizing here? If what you just said is correct then the apostle Paul was a fool who wasted the last half of his life and died for nothing. Scripture has at least a chance of making people step back and reconsider... my opinion (or yours) is no more than an opinion. Opinions are easily dismissed. But there's always that enormous "WHAT IF.." regarding scripture, which makes it less dismissable. Its a distinction worth acknowledging
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Hi Scott,
Please consider that the apostle John considered the words that he wrote concerning Jesus, to be life giving, to those who accepted them.
John 20:31 - But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Don S.
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I gave you several sources, none of which have a stated and obvious bias toward one religion or another.
I see you included the logical qualifier, "religion" in that assessment, which is an automatic preclude in an attempt to sidestep the fact that a source that has a stated bias towards no religion at all still in fact is under the influence of a bias. Their bias is also a bias. Just because they are not biased towards religion does not eliminate them from being biased against it. --Mac
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Scott, To those considering themselves Atheists - have you ever convinced a believer in any religion by asynchronous communication of any of your tenets? I would never WANT to convince a believer to become an atheist. It’s one thing for me to take a chance with my own soul, but it’s another thing entirely to be responsible for someone else’s. The only thing I would want to convince a believer of is that it is possible to have faith and believe in science at the same time. All it takes is not insisting on a literal interpretation of Biblical stories. Here’s just a handful of churches that officially support evolution and old Earth theories: Catholic http://catholicism.about.com/b/2007/08/04/evolution-and-catholicism-compatible-pope-says.htmEpiscopalian http://ncse.com/news/2006/06/episcopal-church-reaffirms-evolution-education-00949Methodist http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/conte...121¬oc=1Many people are turning away from Christianity because they are being told by the fundamentalists that unless they believe in Creationism and a young Earth, then they’re going to Hell. This view that was taught to my son in Christian school was the primary reason he lost his faith. He saw insurmountable physical evidence to the contrary and he’d been told he was going to Hell if he believed it, so he chose to give up on all of Christianity and any other religion. I was still a Christian when he made his decision so I tried to convince him he could have faith and knowledge, but it was too late at that point. It was only later that I became an Agnostic/atheist. The only reason I even care about the issue is that I think it’s child abuse to teach Creationism to a child and then threaten them with Hell if they don’t believe you. So rather than trying to convert believers to my views, I’m just pointing out a way to have faith and enjoy the wonders of science. It's my opinion that quoting scripture to those who don't trust it is rather pointless. Amen brother. You might as well be quoting the phone book.
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Pat, Scripture has at least a chance of making people step back and reconsider... my opinion (or yours) is no more than an opinion.
Opinions are easily dismissed. But there's always that enormous "WHAT IF.." regarding scripture, which makes it less dismissable.
Its a distinction worth acknowledging I agree completely if you’re talking to a person who simply hasn’t become a Christian. Scripture could potentially sway that person to convert. But if you’re talking to an agnostic or atheist, quoting scripture is counterproductive, IMHO. The “what if” factor doesn’t exist.
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What you have described is man-made religion. One of the biggest problems is people creating God in their image or God in a box.
Yes God(Christ) created everything, this I believe.
Unless someone teaches the salvation through Grace(Christ atoning for ALL sin on the cross and Resurrection), they are not teaching Salvation.
The fundamental truth is that Christ paid for all our sin with his literal blood which God accepted to cover our sin. If we don't accept this free gift then we must answer to God why we refused so great a gift.
I don't understand it, I just believe it.
Wyndham
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I gave you several sources, none of which have a stated and obvious bias toward one religion or another.
I see you included the logical qualifier, "religion" in that assessment, which is an automatic preclude in an attempt to sidestep the fact that a source that has a stated bias towards no religion at all still in fact is under the influence of a bias. Their bias is also a bias. Just because they are not biased towards religion does not eliminate them from being biased against it. --Mac this is just silly now! the sources I quoted include the actual writings of the man himself! not some biased source's interpretation! and like someone else said, it does not matter whether Einstein believed or not. believe whatever you want! just expect to get called on it when your biased sources try to spin it as though he was a believer!
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It's my opinion that quoting scripture to those who don't trust it is rather pointless.
Scott, are you rationalizing here? If what you just said is correct then the apostle Paul was a fool who wasted the last half of his life and died for nothing. Scripture has at least a chance of making people step back and reconsider... my opinion (or yours) is no more than an opinion. Opinions are easily dismissed. But there's always that enormous "WHAT IF.." regarding scripture, which makes it less dismissable. Its a distinction worth acknowledging Pat, Paul was also well-versed in the culture of wherever he was VISITING. Paul didn't just send out letters. He had his missionary journeys, and he wrote back to many of the places he had VISITED - live and in person. These are the letters that we have in scripture. His quotations were always to people who likely knew the references by heart in the first place. His quotations also included poets that would be familiar to the audience when the audience would have no idea what hebrew scripture he would have quoted. His quotations had meaning to his audiences because of their context in his physical presence and observations about the local culture which he was in. This is nearly impossible to do over the internet, asynchronously, without body language, without someone's physical presence. To use scripture as a basis for a statement to someone without a few things: 1. Their acceptance of it's authority, and/or 2. Your physical presence and interaction in their life - is a rather pointless matter. That's been my experience and it remains my opinion; largely based upon Paul's example.
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Oh, I get it, its "silly" when actual quotes from the same man are posted on the religious site, but not when other actual quotes from him are quoted on sites which you approve of. Got it. --Mac
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I figure I'd better throw in my 2¢ concerning the original post before this tread dissappears.
It looks to me that history may be repeating itself...
Isaiah 56:9-12
JBlatz
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I figure I'd better throw in my 2¢ concerning the original post before this tread dissappears.
It looks to me that history may be repeating itself...
Isaiah 56:9-12
King James Version (KJV)
9 All ye beasts of the field, come to devour, yea, all ye beasts in the forest.
10 His watchmen are blind: they are all ignorant, they are all dumb dogs, they cannot bark; sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber.
11 Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.
12 Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. Who knew that having a beer at an outreach service could have such an impact!!! I think I'll go lasso a unicorn.  Hehe.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 11/05/13 06:50 PM.
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Oh, I get it, its "silly" when actual quotes from the same man are posted on the religious site, but not when other actual quotes from him are quoted on sites which you approve of. Got it. --Mac "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends." - Albert Einstein spin that however you want...I thought he spoke pretty clearly there! just sayin'!
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"Stuff Einstein said, Vol 36..."
Great minds have been prolific in their sayings and writings over a lifetime. The historian of such can prove just about anything they wish through the selective process, sometimes by simply ignoring the fact that great minds are not static at all, at different points in a man's lifetime he may believe in one way, then as time passes, those beliefs can and should be subject to change of heart, change of mind, discovery, or just plain insight.
I believe that a great man's writings and sayings should be studied as a whole, investigated as to the when and where of each saying as it emanated and developed along the course of the lifetime and then and only then should we attempt to derive what their position on a subject could possibly be.
Just part of that Search for Truth thing.
--Mac
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The historian of such can prove just about anything they wish through the selective process agreed! kinda like King James in the early 1600's! did ya ever play the game called Telephone? 
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Mac, Just part of that Search for Truth thing. So let’s focus on a couple of points of Truth. Evolution really isn’t even debatable at this point. It’s a simple fact based on ALL scientific and physical evidence. That’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of 99.9999% of scientists across the world. Old Earth also isn’t debatable. It’s a fact. The only question is how old. Most scientists say the Earth is about 4.54 billion years old and the universe is about 13.8 billion years old. Could they be off by a billion or so years one way or the other? Yep. Does it fit with Creationism? Nope. Do you accept these Truths? If not, then you’re not searching for Truth.
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Evolution really isn’t even debatable at this point. It’s a simple fact based on ALL scientific and physical evidence. That’s not my opinion. It’s the opinion of 99.9999% of scientists across the world.
Old Earth also isn’t debatable. It’s a fact. The only question is how old. Most scientists say the Earth is about 4.54 billion years old and the universe is about 13.8 billion years old.
Could they be off by a billion or so years one way or the other? Yep.
Does it fit with Creationism? Nope.
Do you accept these Truths? If not, then you’re not searching for Truth.
Maybe I HAVE done the required homework, and have found out some things. Polonium Halos embedded in granite found around the world. Look it up. Is the Speed of Light Constant? The "Little Grand Canyon" at Mount St. Helens Coalified Trees in the vertical, reaching between what your "science" claims to be stratified layers that they also claim must be billions of years old. That's enough for now, the real question is if YOU dare to compare. --Mac
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That's enough for now, the real question is if YOU dare to compare. If you're asking if I'm willing to set here and accumulate tons of research that's already been done and agreed upon by the scientific community, ... then the answer is no. It's already been done. Since I happen to know that you're a very intelligent person, I can only question your motives in asking me to document what I honestly believe you already know.
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My only motive is indeed the truth.
It is your logic here that is rather circular in nature.
If indeed I am so damn intelligent, if indeed I am an honest man, and believe you me I try to be, that should at least pique your interest if indeed you are searching for what is true as well.
Your quick answer tells me that you are not.
--Mac
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My only motive is indeed the truth.
It is your logic here that is rather circular in nature.
If indeed I am so damn intelligent, if indeed I am an honest man, and believe you me I try to be, that should at least pique your interest if indeed you are searching for what is true as well.
Your quick answer tells me that you are not.
--Mac No my friend. My quick answer means you totally ignored my question.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 11/06/13 05:14 PM.
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That is because YOU asked the two questions and YOU also took the liberty to answer them for me...
--Mac
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