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I didn't realize I answered them for you. Scuze me!  Evolution, yes or no? Old Earth, yes or no?
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I didn't realize I answered them for you. Scuze me! Evolution, yes or no? Old Earth, yes or no? My answers are already up there. Evolution --> Mt. St. Helens represented a realtime laboratory for the formation of strata, vertical tree emplacement and fossilization in time measured in months and years, not millenia. Old Earth --> The Speed of Light has been proven NOT to be constant and the implications of that are stunning. Also, those pesky Polonium Halos. At least look it up, I'm not about to try to type everything concerning full scientific and geologic investigations that have already been published in the scientific communities' peer reviewed journals. There is plenty more hard evidence, Bob, I did not want to swamp you here. For example, the much touted Carbon Dating may not be what many believe it is in the way of accuracy, and again, noted scientific investigations have brought this to light. --Mac
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Originally Posted By: bobcflatpicker
I didn't realize I answered them for you. Scuze me! wink
Evolution, yes or no?
Old Earth, yes or no? My answers are already up there. You could've fooled me. If you're suggesting there's unanswered questions, I agree. There will ALWAYS be unanswered questions. Just like my original questions that I still don't know your answer to.
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Mac,
I completed the homework assignment you gave me in response to my 2 simple yes or no questions. As I’m sure you already know, there are lengthy refutations of the topics you mentioned.
Apologetics have always jumped through hoops and grasped at straws to try come up with something to justify their beliefs in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence. They are the only ones that actually believe their so called “proof” in each of the apologetic categories.
What it all boils down to is that the existence of God is a matter of faith and the truth about the nature of the Earth and the universe itself is a matter of science.
Since you’ve said you’re on a search for Truth I would think you’d look for spiritual truths in scripture and physical truths in actual science, … not the pseudoscience of apologetics.
As I’ve said repeatedly, a belief in evolution and old Earth doesn’t negate faith in a supreme being.
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If God used the set of tools we call evolution to create life and the universe, who are we to argue?
The universe is not self-created. Nothing can be a cause unto itself.
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Bob since you like yes or no answers.
1 Do you believe that Christ died on the Cross for all our sins and was resurrected on the 3rd day.
2. If you do, do you accept Him as your Lord & Savior.
Everything else is irrelevant.
Wyndham
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If God used the set of tools we call evolution to create life and the universe, who are we to argue? this is such a good point! if I were a religious person I'd latch onto evolution as part of the plan so fast!  if you assume there indeed was a creator then why is it a stretch to also assume he used tools like evolution to craft his world? and, in fact, many religious people have accepted this real science along with their faith. furthermore, this has been going on pretty much since the first humans invented myths and stories as to why the fireball travels across the sky each day (and every other natural phenomena.) and the progression seems to always be about the same. initially someone makes up a story to explain the fireball and assert that their knowledge is divine and not to be questioned. and it provides comfort to the masses. later on someone comes up with a more accurate explanation for the fireball (fireball is found to truly be a fireball but the earth is not at the center of solar system or galaxy or universe!) and challenges the status quo, often at great risk to themselves! over time, more and more people come to accept the new information. but even as they do the old guard resists and accuses them of abandoning the faith. even in my relatively short life I have seen this firsthand several times. and how many folks still believe the earth is flat or that the fireball actually revolves around it? religions like to declare that they have THE TRUTH and they are very reluctant to accept new information because to do so exposes that they were wrong and that is not very good for business! so they reject science until it is so overwhelmingly proven as to truly be yesterday's news. if I were to start a religion I would base it on science and reason and critical thinking and encourage the evaluation of new ideas. but, I guess it would not be a religion then!
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Wyndham, Wow! I’ve heard a lot of alter calls in my time but this is the first time I’ve seen one on a music forum. You did catch the part before where I said that I’m agnostic/atheist? But I will give you the courtesy of answering your yes/no questions. No on both questions. But Romans 10:9 is supposed to be the ONLY qualifier to be a Christian. Not the endless list of do’s and don’ts that all churches insist on placing on their followers. I especially don’t like the fundamentalist approach of demanding ignorance and blind faith from its members. It’s no surprise that fundamentalists are the “problem children” of EVERY religion.
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[quote=RobbMiller] ....if I were to start a religion I would base it on science and reason and critical thinking and encourage the evaluation of new ideas. but, I guess it would not be a religion then! Hi John, A couple of tips for if and when you start your new religion. 1. Announce your own incarnation in flesh in the face and person of your son, 700 years or so before the fact. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
2. Also predict His crucifixion and resurrection. Isaiah 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.Don S.
Last edited by Curmudgeon; 11/07/13 11:39 AM.
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Don,
The key to starting a religion would be to piggyback it on a very old and respected religion, and then to declare your religion as a fulfillment of the prophesies in the previous religion.
Sound familiar?
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[quote=RobbMiller] ....if I were to start a religion I would base it on science and reason and critical thinking and encourage the evaluation of new ideas. but, I guess it would not be a religion then! Hi John, A couple of tips for if and when you start your new religion. 1. Announce your own incarnation in flesh in the face and person of your son, 700 years or so before the fact. Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
2. Also predict His crucifixion and resurrection. Isaiah 53:4 ¶ Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.
Isaiah 53:10 ¶ Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put [him] to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see [his] seed, he shall prolong [his] days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.Don S. Hi Don! or, you could just make up your story, write it in a book and convince people it was predicted. that trick has worked many times! oh, and have I told you about the word of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? He boiled for your sins! you can read all about it here, http://www.venganza.org/and it is all true (because I say it is!)
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 11/07/13 12:28 PM.
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Don,
The key to starting a religion would be to piggyback it on a very old and respected religion, and then to declare your religion as a fulfillment of the prophesies in the previous religion.
The advantages would be an instant history spanning thousands of years, existing holy texts that you could incorporate as your own and an existing fan base of potential followers. The downside would be that some of the adherents of the old religion are likely to get very pissed and may even do something drastic, … they may even crucify you!
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3 Johns,
I sincerely look forward to reading your book.
Later,
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Don,
The key to starting a religion would be to piggyback it on a very old and respected religion, and then to declare your religion as a fulfillment of the prophesies in the previous religion.
The advantages would be an instant history spanning thousands of years, existing holy texts that you could incorporate as your own and an existing fan base of potential followers. The downside would be that some of the adherents of the old religion are likely to get very pissed and may even do something drastic, … they may even crucify you! Bob, you also might want to change the dates on some of your sacred events so they better align with the already existing holidays of your target audience!
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Bob,
You've already stated that you are gambling with your eternal destiny, so I'll have no more to add. I just trust that you don't offend that "Boogieman in the sky," as you called Him.
I'm sure you know that those who decided to start this new religion claimed to have been eyewitnesses of His resurrection and ascension. Ya, that could have been part of their big deception, except that they went to the ends of the earth to proclaim it and were martyred as a result. Personally, I'd find a different line of work.
Also I'm glad that you recognize those sacred texts. For the sake of those who don't know: The Old Testament which contains the book of Isaiah was translated into Greek circa 200 B.C. and found to be largely intact in the Dead Sea scrolls in 1947.
So, say on my friend.
Don S.
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Don, You've already stated that you are gambling with your eternal destiny, so I'll have no more to add. I just trust that you don't offend that "Boogieman in the sky," as you called Him. The reason I mentioned risking my own soul was because I don’t have the audacity to proclaim that I KNOW the truth. I don’t. Neither do you. We only know what we believe. Maybe there is a god, or maybe there isn’t. You can’t manufacture faith. If I were to hedge my bets and proclaim a faith that I don’t have, wouldn’t a supreme being realize that I was doing so just to play it safe? If you haven’t noticed, my main point throughout the discussion has been to make room for faith and science. Not the actual existence of god. Also I'm glad that you recognize those sacred texts. I think the Bible has TONS of worthwhile portions that are excellent advice for living a good, prosperous and happy life. My Bible is sitting within arm’s reach as I type. It would be a good idea for everyone to read it. I have read it cover to cover dozens of times. I can still quote portions of it even with CRS setting in. Proverbs has always been my favorite book. Romans is my second favorite. I just don’t think that EVERYTHING that mankind needs to know can be found within its pages. If there is a god, I’d bet that he would want us to use our brains to discover the world around us.
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Bob,
I'm sure you know that those who decided to start this new religion claimed to have been eyewitnesses of His resurrection and ascension. Ya, that could have been part of their big deception, except that they went to the ends of the earth to proclaim it and were martyred as a result. Personally, I'd find a different line of work.
I would not equate a willingness to die as evidence that the early practitioners of the faith actually witnessed anything. First of all, one of the things that Christianity represents is the partial fulfillment of Alexander the Great's goal of hellenization of the world. Christianity grafted Greek ideas onto the Jewish religion and then used the Greek language and Roman roads to spread. The Christians started off not as a Religion but as as a sect within the Jewish religion that was largely lead by Jews who spoke and wrote Greek. Christianity was very much a way of challenging not only the pharisaical law and control of everyday life, but also Roman law and control, and freedom is certainly worth dying for. People are killed not so much for what they believe, but because the believer can not be controlled by the powers that be. The more a believer recruits in opposition to the social order, the more likely that he will forfeit his life.
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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The reason I mentioned risking my own soul was because I don’t have the audacity to proclaim that I KNOW the truth. I don’t. Neither do you. We only know what we believe.
Maybe there is a god, or maybe there
Even Richard Dawkins leaves some room for future new information. He has as scale from 1 to 7 in which 1 is an unshakable belief in god and 7 is total disbelief. Dawkins places himself at 6. I can't remember who it was that was asked where he placed himself on Dawkins scale and he answered "8".
Keith
2025 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,2 Raven Mti
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Mac,
I completed the homework assignment you gave me in response to my 2 simple yes or no questions.
From 7:30PM to 5:30AM the following day? Even if you had stayed up all night doing nothing but reading the scientific published papers on those subjects, you would not have had enough time to cover the subjects once, much less actually get a handle on understanding the implications involved. whatever --Mac
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As I’ve said repeatedly, a belief in evolution and old Earth doesn’t negate faith in a supreme being.
If you had really looked into the implications of Barry Setterfield's proven findings concerning the speed of light, or even just viewed his extrapolation curve towards he reverae, you would have known something real about that situation, which is actually a fundamentalist Christian who is a Physicist who is in agreement on that. --Mac
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