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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181 |
I'm very excited about the new release. And I'm thinking about now also finally moving to Audiophile. Obviously the only impediment to Audiophile is the (significant) added cost. I've heard here over the years two somewhat contradictory comments: (1) most people can't tell any difference in the sound, and (2) if you are using BIAB for a commercial release (as I do) you need to get Audiophile. I'd be very interested in hearing from those who have weighed those issues (and any others) how they did so and why they ultimately decided the way they did. Thank you.
www.LawTunes.com: The LawTunes - The Musical Scales of Justice - Original Lawyer Rock & Roll www.SurfChords.com: The SurfChords - The Endless Summer Continues and The Wave Never Ends
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 392
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Posts: 392 |
As you've noticed, this is a complex topic that defies any sort of "one size fits all" answer.
While it is easy and probably correct to conclude that the audiophile version MIGHT be beneficial for "commercial releases" there are LOTS of different kinds of "commercial releases"...from those mega-projects where 10s of thousands of dollars are spent PER TRACK to gigging bands that hope to sell a few thousand CDs tops.
Pro studio engineers often scratch their heads wondering why they spend so much time, effort and money...even on major releases when the vast majority of listeners are hearing the music on relatively crappy car stereos and/or generally low end home systems that have NO CHANCE of reproducing what's on the CD.
IMO, music produced with the standard BIAB files and MASTERED CORRECTLY would be just fine for relatively small scale commercial releases.
Trust me on this...if the data on the CD exceeds the reproduction capability of the user's listening device...they ain't gonna hear all that's on the CD....period.
Best,
Jim
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2007
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I agree with everything said above. I would add this. Since you are, in fact, producing material for commercial release, if you did go audiophile, you would have the satisfaction of knowing that you had started with the best source material possible, and that listeners who had the audiophile equipment to appreciate it would be rewarded as well.
Since I don't have such gear, or likely the hearing to appreciate the difference anyway, I can't tell you whether it would be worth it. However, if I was in your position and had the means, I'd go with the audiophile package.
Richard
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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I always like to buy the best. Audiophile version of BIAB is the best PG Music produces. I'm not convinced the gain is worth the hefty price tag otherwise they would have made a demo showing this and why we should upgrade. I cannot afford the audiophile version now and my only use at the moment is for my personal enjoyment so the expense makes no sense for me. However, please let us know if you do buy the Audiophile version and comment back on your experience.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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In another recent thread requesting a demo of the difference, I mentioned that there is a problem doing that because the demo will become a compressed MP3 file for the Internet. The process of creating a file with loss and compression would likely eliminate the subtle differences.
You need a good set of ears, good playback equipment, and a good listening environment to hear the difference. Then you mix your project knowing it will sometimes be played back on a system where the difference does matter (though unfortunately and increasingly on those where it doesn't).
I'm one of those geeks who had an audiophile card from stereo review magazine in the early 1970s. I'm also a pro player and arranger/composer. I can hear the difference easily on some instruments like acoustic piano, acoustic guitar and drums (notably cymbals) even though my high range hearing is limited to about 12k Hz like many of the rest of the social security crowd around here. I work with the best possible sound because it makes a difference to me what the quality of my product is. This is true even though what I use BIAB for primarily is composer's demos for other musicians with whom I work, but I do add the occasional BIAB instrument to a commercial recording.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181
Apprentice
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181 |
Thank you all for your input. All your points are good ones. It remains a tough decision and I remain torn. I obviously want my albums to sound as good as possible, which is why I always have them professionally mastered. I have invested in quality hardware and software. Of course, extrapolating from one of the national media reviews of my new holiday CD, my money might be better spent on singing lessons. Thanks again.
www.LawTunes.com: The LawTunes - The Musical Scales of Justice - Original Lawyer Rock & Roll www.SurfChords.com: The SurfChords - The Endless Summer Continues and The Wave Never Ends
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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...my money might be better spent on singing lessons. That is good thinking. So what're you waiting for? (Note to Mac's secretary, send Invoice to LawTunes for two consults this morning...)  --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 181 |
Invoice is of course welcome, but be forewarned that I do pay with copies of my CDs.
www.LawTunes.com: The LawTunes - The Musical Scales of Justice - Original Lawyer Rock & Roll www.SurfChords.com: The SurfChords - The Endless Summer Continues and The Wave Never Ends
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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A reply deserving of the Esq. title, sir.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 421 |
I assume that Mac's youtube video is with BIAB audiophile edition? If it is, the issue is to compare std vs audiophile. I appreciate that there is some loss via internet compression but that is also true for the wma files also so there should be some noticeable difference between the two versions even on the internet.
I have some idea what the difference might sound like, maybe the std version is a tab flat or lacking presence compared to a slightly livelier audiophile version? But based on the fact that PG Music havnt created a demo for us to compare and people have mixed opinions I'm guessing the difference is not much.
I listened to a video on youtube demonstrating the use of a vocal booth vs no vocal booth with this guy speaking. The difference wasnt much at all but it was there. I've learned that anything audiophile is only slight differences, and in some cases one has to really listen hard to tell the difference. I'm thinking of comparing HiFi cables for example. The same could be true of BIAB audiophile version.
I'll ask this question again from another post, I've noticed playing a tune in BIAB and swapping between RealTracks takes a number of seconds, it's a real pain. Usually BIAB will prepared 4/4 files when uncompressing? Some RealTracks are fast at uncompressing and others take what seems like ages. How does Audiophile compare on this level? Is switching between RealTracks when looking for a suitable track faster or slower with Audiophile? If faster this would be another reason for me to consider?
Last edited by PaulH; 12/07/13 07:45 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,475
Veteran
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Hi Paul. I think the hi-fi cable difference is snake oil to pad the commissions of audio salespeople, but I agree with your basic thought that the differences are subtle.
Remember, there is no uncompressing needed when using the audiophile version. Perhaps you meant to say "regenerating" rather than "uncompressing"? The primary reason BIAB provided us a few years ago with the ability to uncompress the WMA files was to speed up regeneration (even though the quality was unchanged). We tried to measure informally and even then, the speed up was maybe 15% at best, but that made a difference because everything ran much slower then: remember the +/- files? There were three times as many files needed for RealTracks before the Elastique algorithm eliminated that need. Is the difference in regeneration speed NOW worth the expense of upgrading to the audiophile version? Probably not, if that were the only reason to upgrade. But is it a factor to consider along with the audio benefit? Yes. A lot faster? No.
EDIT: Paul, you said above you use BIAB for personal enjoyment. I really wouldn't worry about getting the audiophile version for that purpose.
Last edited by Matt Finley; 12/07/13 08:09 AM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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I assume that Mac's youtube video is with BIAB audiophile edition? I've never published one. Assume you mean, "Matt" up there? --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,475
Veteran
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Oh. If it is one of my videos, they are all done by actual musicians, live in concert or club, or in the studio. The short promo of my CD is from music recorded in studios a couple of years before BIAB made RealTracks available.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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