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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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He can follow any path he chooses, as you can also.
Its your drive and you can do whatever with it you want that makes ya happy.
Just pointing out the caveat that is, indeed, there.
The Ferrari is a wonderful sports car.
Those trying to use a Ferrari for everyday commute through wind and snow, though, might think about a second car.
The man who can afford another Ferrari without breaking the bank may view that differently. He can drive it like he stole the doggone thing this morning...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For those interested, here is a webpublished ongoing durability test project of SSDs going thru torture-test Write Cycles that supports what Matt is doingand advocating: http://ssdendurancetest.com/ Pitting the Samsung 640 Evo, Intel SSD 520. SanDisk Ultra Plus and Kingston SSDNow V300 against one another. So far, the Kingston has failed, at only 444.9 Write Cycles. Kingston has stated that they are going to replace under warranty. Of the other three, the Samsung and Intel have just crossed the 3,000 cycle upper end recommendation point, the Sandisk has doubled that and is just over 6,000 at the moment.
Is this really normal?
No. The tests preformed here must not be confused with normal use. They are designed to stress SSDs and simulate a really busy environment.
Normal workstation use would be more like 10-20GB written daily.
they also state:
Please note that this unit is heavily stressed and in steady state most of the time.
Which begs the question, how would normal heatup/cooldown cycles, typical of normal use powerup/powerdown, along with the Writes, stress the drives? Likely not in a good way, expansion and contraction testing of other electronics bears that out. Nothing is a single-input problem in my field. I would add the caveat that true testing should not involve a single example from each source. I would like to have multiple examples from each source, side by side under same environment and conditions, enough multiple examples to provide some modicum of statistical substantiation. As any practicing test engineer should. As usual for the intertubes, not. a. real. test. --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2013
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I don't think we really know yet about BIAB specifically. The number of files that BIAB updates then closes in the main /BB folder is very small, like 8, but there could be many in other folders if we researched it.
Wally, I have followed the precise advice you received, to put the OS and applications on the SSD, but no data. I have everything amply backed up, so I am willing to chance a drive failure. I run the Trim and diagnostic utility faithfully each week that tells me the SSD is still fine. The speed gain is too much to give up on my aging PC. I am not concerned because I have been building PCs for thirty years and teaching computer science for longer. In that time many hard drives have failed, and none of my new SSDs yet. I am careful where I save files...
I just got off the phone with a design engineer at a major hard drive manufacturer that also produces SSDs. I worked with him for many years designing in our power electronics (Spindle and Voice Coil motor drivers)for hard drives. He agreed that it's best to put your applications (and obviously the OS) on the SSD (faster) as long as files (i.e. music files) that are being written to are on the hard drive. Wally G
Yamaha Montage 6 Roland J80, D50, Integra 7, BK-7m, FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 My WEB Site: www.gontowski.com/music
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Sep, yes, that would be easy to do in the future. Glad everything worked out.
An hour ago, I got my new 2014 drive! With the audiophile version, there are so many great files I'm considering doing what you did and running the RealTracks from the new drive from PG Music.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Wally, thanks for the info from your friend. Mac, thanks for confirming there is info supporting both views.
I treat every drive as if it will fail soon. When it does, I'm ready. So far, three SSDs are running well and two hard drives of the same vintage have failed (that's on three computers, in case you thought I had a monster machine). I realize this small sample is contrary to what is predicted, but I'm happy with what I have. When the SSD drives do fail, and they will, I will replace them with newer larger ones.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 58
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For those interested, here is a webpublished ongoing durability test project of SSDs going thru torture-test Write Cycles that supports what Matt is doingand advocating: http://ssdendurancetest.com/ Pitting the Samsung 640 Evo, Intel SSD 520. SanDisk Ultra Plus and Kingston SSDNow V300 against one another. So far, the Kingston has failed, at only 444.9 Write Cycles. Kingston has stated that they are going to replace under warranty. Of the other three, the Samsung and Intel have just crossed the 3,000 cycle upper end recommendation point, the Sandisk has doubled that and is just over 6,000 at the moment.
Is this really normal?
No. The tests preformed here must not be confused with normal use. They are designed to stress SSDs and simulate a really busy environment.
Normal workstation use would be more like 10-20GB written daily.
they also state:
Please note that this unit is heavily stressed and in steady state most of the time.
Which begs the question, how would normal heatup/cooldown cycles, typical of normal use powerup/powerdown, along with the Writes, stress the drives? Likely not in a good way, expansion and contraction testing of other electronics bears that out. Nothing is a single-input problem in my field. I would add the caveat that true testing should not involve a single example from each source. I would like to have multiple examples from each source, side by side under same environment and conditions, enough multiple examples to provide some modicum of statistical substantiation. As any practicing test engineer should. As usual for the intertubes, not. a. real. test. --Mac Mac, That's it! You've put the fear of Silicon in me! I'm going to remove my SSD and replace it with a Rotating Hard Drive, and put my operating system there and everything else in my other hard drives.:-) Seriously, if you think about it, if you just put the BiaB application on the SSD, there isn't much writing going on just reading. I'm not a software engineer by profession, but I have written several C programs with about 11K lines of code for GPIB control of my electronic lab test equipment. I need to look at what's in the BiaB hard drive, but I'm assuming the BiaB application program is a .exe file. As far as I know that means it executes commands. You can't write to the .exe file and modify it. I will store samples, music files, etc. on the hard drive. I just got off the phone with another drive designer with one of the largest drive maker on the east coast that I worked with for 18 years. He confirmed that the SSD should contain the OS and your applications for fastest throughput. Just my 2 cents. Wally G
Yamaha Montage 6 Roland J80, D50, Integra 7, BK-7m, FR-8X, 1967 Fender Jaguar, Fender Strat, Fender 1965 Twin Reverb reissue, Selmer Trumpet, Akai EWI, Studio One 4 My WEB Site: www.gontowski.com/music
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I don't think that leaving in the SSD and even running BiaB from it will likely "kill" the drive outright, its just that you should possibly expect a shortened Mean Lifetime Before Failure due to the extra Write Cycles above what System, etc. would put on a drive in what the computer and OS manufactures consider "normal" or "average" use.
What we crazies that make multitrack music files do with PCs is not considered normal or average by them.
Over the long run, I bet we still make up a fractional percentage out of the total of PC users. The mfrs just aren't likely to cater to that mall of a user group, wouldn't make good business sense.
I'm probably going to install it one day to my shiny new puter with SSD in it, too.
But the caveat is backup, backup, and backup -- mirror to another disk routinely, etc. -- and there are just so many folks who don't seem to keep that going for long like a few of us pro geeks do - and then they will be back to blame one of us for tellin' them it was okay to run that way.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Of course, backup thoroughly.
It has been advertised that an SSD is not degraded by reading, only writing. On my PC, eight files in C:/bb were updated during my session today, in addition of course to the song files on another drive. I rather think the mean time before failure of my SSD at that rate could be longer than the mean time before my failure. I still expect the drive to fail and keep my backups.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
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