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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have been trying to install my 2014 Audiophile version for the last three hours without success. The problem is Norton Internet Security which initially deleted the Setup.exe file. I managed to restore that file and, even though support told me I should not need to turn off Nortons to complete the installation, I did. The program was installed successfully, I think.
However, when Nortons came back on after 15 minutes it deleted the Band-in-a-Box.exe files and the RealBand.exe files. So, I can't start the program. I cannot see a way to restore these files using Nortons although Kent in PG Support has given me a way to do this. But the best he can tell me to restore the files is to contact Nortons. If anyone has ever tried to do this, you will know what a problem that is. All they want to do is sell you something else.
My purpose in posting this bad news is to stop others going down the same track and experiencing the frustration of losing their installation files.
As I said to Kent, it would have been helpful to get an email warning about this problem!
Thankfully, I only use BIAB for practicing and small band arranging. I hate to think what I would have done if today's gig involved using it live, as do many members these days.
This needs some serious action Guys!
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Graham, This is the second thread about Norton's antivirus software creating an issue. The other thread is here if you want to have a read. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Hi Graham,
Sorry that you had that problem. There was a Norton tech support guy who came on our forum here, and that was impressive.
One thing that would help is if you submitted a report to norton.com/fp which he suggested.
We have done so, but reports from Norton registered users might be a good idea too.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BB didn't do it.
Norton Antivirus did it.
Apparently, along with not being able to assess a real threat from a benign and useful program, they can't Quarantine large suspected files, so they just permanently delete them. (?!?)
On the other hand, Avast! free antivirus works great here, has for years.
And if you want even more than the Avast! free for home use, you can pay them for a full support package.
Remobing Norton completely from a system is another issue. I've dealt with it when called in to consult problems, argh!
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Mac, I am not interested in hearing that. Nortons is still the most popular antivirus all round the world and your opinion of it really is not helpful.
Okay, this is for Peter, since he was kind enough to get in on this topic.
It took a guy from Symantec in India over two hours to get my program installed and working. The problem is not theirs it is PGMusic. They are supposed to submit the files to Symantec so that this kind of problem does not arise.
Actually, I read that original post on the subject and thought that since it was a week ago, at least someone would have done something about the problem.
It is not reasonable to suggest that a BIAB user contact Norton to solve this problem.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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So, the expectation is that all software producers are expected to send copies of all softwares produced and marketed to Norton Antivirus?
Should those producers also have to send copies to all other Antivirus program producers as well?
Should the cost of a software vendor having to send copies of their product to Norton be passed on to ALL customers, which is how business works, just because one Antivirus vendor can't write their software in such fashion that a suspected large file cannot be quarantined and is then automatically DELETED? TWICE?
That does not make much sense, especially due to the fact that Norton Antivirus is the ONLY report of this kind we have on record here to date and there are many BB2014 users out there using any one of a number of other protection solutions available.
But, whatever.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, we do from our small but successful software development company, otherwise you run the risk of files being deleted. We do not send them to any other companies because they do not have the market share.
Anyway, you and I have had this exact same conversation before and since the installation program has suffered the same fate previously, although it did not delete the run files, I did not think if would happen again.
If you want to market a program successfully you have to do things like this. Take it from a Marketing Manager. You have to think of your customer!
Plus, I do not think your criticism of the Norton program is going to help PG Music one little bit if they want fast service from them.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Oh, that explains it clearly.
You are in Sales and I am in Engineering.
relax,
--Mac
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Hi Graham,
For what it's worth, I used to use Norton exclusively. I was a huge Norton Disk Doctor fan and I went on from there. They had one of the best names going in the business.
Then, some years ago, Norton stopped being friendly with my programs. They created all sorts of mischief on my computer. So I stopped using them. These days, like Mac, I use Avast. It's never created any issues for me.
I don't understand your logic in blaming PG Music. It seems to me that Norton should have had a pop up message that asked whether the program was legitimate. You are both a Norton user and a BIAB user. As a Norton user, the problem arose with a BIAB file. You have every right to contact Norton on this.
These days, I suspect that Norton is heavily geared to the Microsoft suite of programs and thus it doesn't readily accommodate software outside of this.
Good luck with your problem.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Actually, Graham, I would think PGMusic would have to check in with a whole bunch of other anti-virus vendors before they even get to Norton.  Source: OPSWAT Antivirus Market Analysis: December 2012
Last edited by jford; 12/14/13 10:03 AM.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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As an aside: When I first started writing aftermarket styles for BiaB in the early 1990s, having the same last name as Peter Norton was an advantage.
But now it seems like Symantec is ruining my good name.
So I must declare, Norton Music and Norton Anti-Virus are two separate companies with nothing in common but a last name.
And I agree, Norton AV should have asked if the user wanted the file deleted or not.
If the installation file was not on Norton AV's blacklist, they should report it as suspicious and ask the user if he/she wants to delete it or not.
That would be polite.
Bob "Notes" (Not Symantec) Norton
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Oh, that explains it clearly.
You are in Sales and I am in Engineering.
relax,
--Mac Actually, I am an engineer (structural). Also 'marketing' is NOT sales. Marketing is about the whole business seen from the point of view of its final result, that is, from the customer's point of view. It is about designing a product (in this case software) so that it is attuned to the user's needs. It is also about pricing, communication, support and distribution to inform, motivate and service the market. That is why the feedback that I was trying to provide is so important! I'll agree that it is a common misconception that marketing is only sales but I am sure that Kalie would agree with me. I suppose the popularity of antivirus programs varies depending on whether it is a home computer or one in a business environment, which mine are. It also varies in different parts of the world. Plus it depends on which survey you look at. This is the latest one I have seen for worldwide but I prefer to do my own surveys amongst our own customers because that is true marketing. Detailed market share statistics: •Avast - 17.4% worldwide market share •Microsoft - 13.2% worldwide market share •ESET - 11.1% worldwide market share •Symantec - 10.3% worldwide market share In Australia and S.E.Asia our customer's usage is very high for single PC users (Servers are different) and that is why we submit our products. And that is why I use Norton Antivirus so that I have the same experience as my customers. However, since I seem to be only the second person with the problem, judging by the forum, I did wonder if it is because I use Audiophile on an external hard drive. What do you think?
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Just as a further note. I had a similar problem when I downloaded the two updates. Norton Internet security did not actually delete the files this time but it recommended that I do so. I was able to override and say go ahead anyway.
I was also asked to fill in a survey about my Norton use. They were mainly interested in the support I received but I also go the opportunity to comment on their software and I complained appropriately. I even gave them this topic as a link so that they could see how much damage this was doing to their reputation. I do hope someone at Symantec actually reads the results of their survey.
I think for anyone else using Norton antivirus software, they just have to switch it off when doing any installation or downloading with PG Music programs. But that only solves one part of the problem. The run files are the next problem when you switch it back on. And it does open you to a real virus threat.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Graham,
What kind of coffee do you have over there?
I want summa what yer drinkin'.
--Mac
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I agree with Graham that it is PGMusic's responsibility to get their executables on Norton's white list to protect their users from these situations. This is a highly inconvenient experience for an end user, and some less savvy users may mistake it for a real security threat. PGMusic may already be submitting their files to Norton, in which case we may be the early guinea pigs testing it out before Norton has approved the files.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Graham,
What kind of coffee do you have over there?
I want summa what yer drinkin'.
--Mac Come on down, Mac, we're really short of trumpet players. 
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hey Graham,
What kind of coffee do you have over there?
I want summa what yer drinkin'.
--Mac Come on down, Mac, we're really short of trumpet players. See, that's a problem for this old engineer. Asked you a question and got a reply that neither directly addresses nor answers the question...  --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I agree with Graham that it is PGMusic's responsibility to get their executables on Norton's white list to protect their users from these situations. This is a highly inconvenient experience for an end user, and some less savvy users may mistake it for a real security threat. PGMusic may already be submitting their files to Norton, in which case we may be the early guinea pigs testing it out before Norton has approved the files.
Hi Graham,
Sorry that you had that problem. There was a Norton tech support guy who came on our forum here, and that was impressive.
One thing that would help is if you submitted a report to norton.com/fp which he suggested.
We have done so, but reports from Norton registered users might be a good idea too. ...When I get my files restored, I will submit them to Symantec for review so others don't have the same problem. Maybe PGMusic already did, but if not, I will politely suggest that PGMusic should be submitting these files to the various AV software vendors prior to release. Sounds to me like Norton should already have TWO reports and possibly even two examples of the files by now. And one of those two reports is indeed from PG himself. Ball's in Norton's court. --Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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While I have been a long-time user of Norton Internet Security I am certainly not a fan or advocate. Just too lazy to change brands I guess. Norton employs this pro-active tool it calls SONAR. It uses heuristics to identify emerging threats based on the behaviour of applications and claims to identify threats quicker than traditional signature-based threat detection techniques. Unfortunately the algorithms it uses are far from perfect and at times it flags genuine programs as "high certainty threats" and deletes them without warning. I first experienced this behaviour a couple of years ago when downloading a several hundred megabyte upgrade from a highly reputable software developer in the UK. Twice I waited patiently for a slow download only to have Norton delete a perfectly safe file before I had a chance to run it. It is laughable to suggest that PG Music, or any other software manufacturer, is in any way at fault because they haven't first sought permission from Symantec to release a new product. Imagine the delays if every software developer in the world had to first clear every new release or upgrade through Symantec first. This year I decided to buy the PlusPAK download version. Norton flagged every file I downloaded as "Unsafe" but fortunately did not delete anything and I was able to tell it that I trusted the file and so there were no further issues. For those who use Norton the default behaviour of the SONAR detection is to remove what it decides are "high certainty threats"  However, it is possible to change this so that you are prompted first: 
Last edited by RWilliams; 12/15/13 04:23 PM.
Richard Williams
Sydney
Australia
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...It is laughable to suggest that PG Music, or any other software manufacturer, is in any way at fault because they haven't first sought permission from Symantec to release a new product. Imagine the delays if every software developer in the world had to first clear every new release or upgrade through Symantec first.
Hi Richard, thanks for the post, you are exactly correct: "It is laughable to suggest that PG Music is in any way at fault because they haven't first sought permission from Symantec to release a new product." I use Norton also. But when I'm installing from a known quality source, I right-click the Norton icon, and disable Auto-Protect until I complete the installation. Otherwise, if Norton doesn't know about the file, it just blindly guesses it is malware and recommends to delete the file. What a joke. Not a very robust approach.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Mac Videos
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Wishing you an egg-cellent weekend!
— Team PG
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