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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176 |
HI,
I recently started to collect BIAB songs from a number of different sources.It was kind of overkill.I have soooo many tunes now...
I have started to go through them to see what the difference is between different versions of the same songs.For example I have three different Realbooks now.I'm trying to figure out if one is hipper than the others as far as chordchanges,style and instrumentation choices etc..
Most of the tunes in the Realbooks I've checked out are good and very similar if not identical,but I'm amazed at how bad some of the songs are are.For example there is the tune A Night in Tunesia.
Of all the styles that are available, it loads with a Lee Ritenour style.I couldn't imagine it sounding any less musical.No groove, way too fast, but the melody is halftime so if I slowed it down for the groove to sound human,the Melody would drag on forever....Who puts these together and decides what sounds good?I tried to load in other styles but for some reason I can't make it sound right either.
I'm sure there are other disasters out there.Is there a person at PG who puts these together?
I'm thinking it might be really nice to have a collection of "Best of BIAB Songs" that are really dialed in.They could be posted somewhere for users to access for up and download.Maybe even organized by Styles.(Straight Ahead,Contemporary Jazz, Latin.....)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
Is there a person at PG who puts these together?
Obviously NOT.
Most of those are compilations from many different users, some more experienced than others.
At the end of the day, they are worth what you paid for them. (free downloads, right?)
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,610 |
I think most of the jazz players who use BIAB, would rather make up their own arrangements. I have over 500 arrangements, with my own chords, substitutes and all. The only fake books that have really good changes are The New Real Book #3 and the Standards Book from Sher Music. Most of the rest leave sonething to be desired. IMHO. Later, Ray
Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176 |
Yes, the Sher Music Stuff is really good.
I was not aware that PG Music does not actually put songs together as part of their package and that it is all user stuff.
I wish I knew more about harmony.I'm a bassplayer and I can't come up with those really great changes and substitutions that good keyboard players know.But I can hear if something is right.
Jan sent me a bunch of stuff (thanks again,Jan)and I'll be listening to that tonight.
I may already have more than I need as far as good arrangements goes.
I also just bought a Realbook dvd that has BIAB files and all the recordings in MP3 format on it.I should be getting it in the mail in the next few days.
And I may also look into those Norton song collections again.He seems to be the guy who knows how to put this stuff together.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
I wish I knew more about harmony.I'm a bassplayer and I can't come up with those really great changes and substitutions that good keyboard players know.But I can hear if something is right.
A good ear is very important.
But I urge you to seek out private instruction and even music theory classes in your area. Waiting to discover that which you can learn in a year's time with application and someone to guide you in the right direction is simply more efficient by lightyears.
There are also plenty of jazz guides and tutorials online, just use any good websearch engine. Good cheap way to learn some things, but there is nothing like a good one on one teacher when it comes to identifying that which we cannot see for ourselves and gettin' on with it, man. BTW Berklee school is now doing online instruction...
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
Quote:
...I'm amazed at how bad some of the songs are are.For example there is the tune A Night in Tunesia.
Of all the styles that are available, it loads with a Lee Ritenour style.I couldn't imagine it sounding any less musical.
Who cares what style it loads with? Someone thought it was cool and posted it like that. It's irrelevant, you're thinking like you're playing a cd or something. Even if it was saved with the basic jazz style, there's many different arrangements of Tunisia. Try the J_Dolphin style or one of the Bossa/Rock styles. The whole point of Biab is to find your own way of doing something.
Most of the files in Biab Real Book One are fairly accurate as far as the chord changes are concerned. The instrumentation used for melody's and solos can be all over the place and a lot of them sound horrible like Joy Spring with an accordian solo? Why? Who knows, it's a free file off the internet but the changes are right and it's one mouse click to change the instrument. One thing to keep in mind is it's still faster to have a file to work with that's 80% correct than it is to start from scratch and remember that Biab will intentionally change the voicing of jazz chords according to the style selected. Play around with the jazz up and jazz down the chords options as well as the styles. If you're convinced that some changes are truly wrong, just type in the song name and the word "chords" into Google, you'll find something. Who knows if it's right but you'll find something. Another good thing to do is find a midi file of a tune because you can get the chords from that too but if it's a good midi, put it into Real Band and really have some fun with it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,724
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Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,724 |
Happy to say I did it the old fashion way from about 8 binders collected over the years full of lyrics and chords from many genres. First of all it was a not only a great learning experience with BIAB but also with the music in general. As entering the chords one by one I was able to try different styles and tempos on the fly. Heck after all these years I am still rearranging songs, either because I hear something different and like it or because I just wonder how it would sound with a different arrangement or style.
With this said there are indeed many places out there to get free BIAB arrangements, heck many on this forum are happy to send you something they have arranged if indeed you ask them for it. But as pointed out earlier the operative word is indeed "free".
Every time BIAB updates styles and real tracks it is time to go over my entire songbook, which results in hours of work, but happy work, as I would hate to have to go back to on the gig trail with just me, a guitar and 8 binders full of lyrics and chords.
Bottom line is most musicians are not satisfied with any arrangement (no matter how good it is) until they have done something to it to make it their own. Therefore a Best of BIAB file would at best subjective.
Enjoy the work, roll your own it's fun!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 39 |
Hi Folks ! http://www.realbooksoftware.com/This is the right place to buy a really great program and you get Free Band In A Box Files-"Real Book, Jazz Standards and More" Value 347 $-FREE! FREE! Really useful for music lovers ! Greetings, popboy
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 176 |
I just received my Realbook DVD in the mail today.Can't wait to see what's on it.
Mac,thanks for your input.I'm actually not a beginner as far as Jazz and Harmony is concerned.I did take classes at a community college wht a guy named Ray Brown who played with Stan Kenton and I also studied with a guy who graduated from Berkeley.I've been a pro bassist for almost 30 years now in pretty much all styles and even though my main thing is R&B Funk I have also done Jazz concerts with guys who taught at Berkeley and they didn't hate me.Still,there is so much for me to learn on the bass still that I just can't seem to find the time to work on my keyboard skills.I get to a cretain level and then I stop for a while and when I get back to it I've forgotten most of what i learned.It's frustrating.
So as far as coming up with changes, knowing voicings and what to call them and tweaking progressions...I just don't have the chops to do it quickly.
For example,just the other day on a rehearsal I brought in the Victor Wooten(great bassplayer, check him out!) version of Song for my Father which he plays AABA and the last A has these wicked chord substitutions.
The keyboard player in my band is really an amazing musician, he toured with Gino Vanelli(not an easy gig) and he liked the version.So immediately after hearing the section for the first time he goes to his piano and plays it perfectly. It floored me.
I just think that piano players brains are wired differently.
I could have figured out the chords but it would have taken me forever and then I would not have known what to call them.Maybe I've been playing one note at a time for too long....
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 264
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 264 |
Hey dude I'm a bass player too - I hear what you're saying about keyboard players. They always know what the chord is, all the altehttp://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gifrations, what inversion it's being played. It's freaky - most of them are also really good at coming up with basslines too if you ask them! http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/images/icons/mad.gifI've been trying to work out why it is, so that I can apply it to the teaching of some of my students - what I think happens is that because of the nature of a keyboard instrument, and the nature of the keyboard repertoire, that learning keyboard players get an automatic course in ear training as they're learning their instrument. In most pieces they play there is harmony present (whether it's chords, or arpeggiated chords) as well as melody. So by the time they've been playing for a while they are used to the different sounds of chords - whereas a lot of traditional bass methods of learning involve playing the bass with just a drum machine or a metronome - it's not till a bass player gets further down the track that he might start playing with backing tracks/chord progressions. I've got a couple of beginners as students and they're working on their right hand picking on the moment, nothing fancy, just open strings. So I've prepped a track for them that has a bar of E Major then one of E minor, then one of A major and one of A minor (and on for the D and G strings too). That way, when they're working through their right hand exercises, they are ALSO HEARING THE SOUNDS OF MAJOR AND MINOR CHORDS. And I'm trying to adapt more exercises to have a harmonic content...so hopefully when they're more advanced they will naturally have 'good ears.' Be interesting to see how it pans out - bit late for us old timers though! Cheers Paul
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