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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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I'm using BIAB 2014, and I recently received a song file created by a friend on an earlier version (2011, I believe), which he'd created with Triplet Resolution on, but which I wanted to play with a Latin backing. I selected a Latin RealTracks backing, and wasn't asked (as I had been previously, and which my friend has subsequently confirmed happens in his version) if I wanted to switch from Swing to straight 8th notes. The result was that I got dotted eighth note and sixteenth note pairs instead of the pairs of eight notes I was expecting. Thinking there might be some incompatibility between 2014 and a file created on 2011, I created a new file consisting of a single bar of eighth notes in Swing feel, and then switched Swing feel off. I got the same result. Any suggestions? Michael PS I think I've described this adequately, but here are a couple of screenshots: https://www.dropbox.com/s/h6ci0s2mfk9a1x1/Screenshot%202014-04-01%2015.41.03.pnghttps://www.dropbox.com/s/f4tlsioww4mnkb9/Screenshot%202014-04-01%2015.42.10.png
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
The screenshots look like they should if I am understanding your post correctly.
I don't always get prompted and have never tried to figure it out. I usually only switch feel to enter a specific notation and to get printouts.
If you want to post the songfile somewhere, that may help. I have had no problems opening old songs but can't confirm about 2011 -> 2014 issue you mentioned.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Thanks, Rachael. Here's a link to the song file. https://www.dropbox.com/s/re5fhe8sj9iuf2...20120%20v.2.MGUMy friend had copied the chords and melody in from a concert copy so that he could transpose it for his clarinet, and just accepted the style that was active at the time. When he sent it to me I wanted to switch to a Latin feel, and came up against the problem. My theory (for what it's worth) is that BIAB 2014 has lost the option to change from swing to straight when changing styles in that direction (or perhaps I've inadvertently switched it off?), and that the closest it can get to representing a pair of tied eighth-note triplets and a single eighth-note triplet when it's got four subdivisions of a quarter note to deal with is a dotted quarter note and a sixteenth note. I'm thinking that a pair of swing eighth notes are 8/48ths and 4/48ths respectively, while a set of 4 straight 16th notes are 3/48ths each, so the beginning of the second swing eighth is closest to the beginning of the last 16th note. It would make me feel less alone if you could confirm that BIAB 2014 does the same for you on the linked piece... Michael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
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I can confirm that BIAB did not ask for the feel change when changing to ZZBOSSA.
I still am not following what the problem is. If you let the melody play, it sounds the same regardless of the feel. I really believe the swing/even feel is there to allow for easy note entry. In fact, a true swing feel cannot be accurately notated. I know classically trained musicians that, if you give them a swing piece notated as BIAB does, they get the rhythm slightly wrong because they are performing it as written.
If the prompt is your concern, I suspect it intentional if PG did away it. I always found it to be a nuisance preferring to manually change the feel to the desired option when needing a lead sheet.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175 |
My point is that before BIAB 2014 there was a prompt when changing the style from Swing to Latin in a song originally entered with a Swing feel, and that if the option was accepted the song's notation and audio output would switch to Latin.
In BIAB 2014 when you change from a Swing style to a Latin style, although Triplet feel option is automatically switched off, the audio output remains "swung" although the notation changes to a dotted eighth-note and sixteenth note presentation.
This is most obvious when you listen to Bar 17 of the MGU file I sent you.
If you choose to edit the notes of this bar in Swing and Bossa modes, you'll find that the start point and duration of each note is identical - the first note starts at Bar 17, note 1, tick 1 and lasts 64 ticks, and the second starts at Bar 17, note 1 tick 81 and lasts 32 ticks.
I don't have access to an older version of BIAB at present, but I expect that when the prompt "do you wish to change to straight eight feel" is accepted, adjustments are made to the durations and starting points of the notes which makes the notation and the audio output fit with a latin feel.
May I crave your indulgence, and ask you to check this on your setup? If you can confirm my findings, I'll report it as a bug.
Michael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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Try UNCHECKING "Clean Notation" to see what the note values really are.
This is not a bug IMHO.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
Apprentice
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175 |
Changing the "Clean Notation" box makes no difference to the display in either Swing or Straight versions of the affected song.
If not a bug, it's certainly an undesirable feature which has been introduced between versions (also IMHO!).
(Or perhaps more accurately the removal of a desirable feature).
Michael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
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Expert
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In my setup, bar 17 sounds the same regardless of swing or bossa style. Check the melody track events and see where the notes lie rhythmically. Same regardless of feel on my system.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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OP
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Posts: 175 |
Thanks, Rachael, that's what I thought.
Earlier versions of BIAB used to change the durations of the notes when the option to change from Swing to Straight was accepted, and the lead sheet would be changed accordingly. BIAB 2014 doesn't switch the underlying durations, so a Bossa accompaniment comes out with a swing melody over the top and the appearance on the lead sheet of a dotted 8th note and a 16th note.
There are many songs which lend themselves to swing and latin styles, and I'd like to be able to practise both while seeing appropriate notation on the screen and hearing the melody correctly until I'm familiar with the song.
Obviously I could print out a lead sheet from the swing version and practise the latin version reading from this, but it's a work-around I used not to have to do on earlier versions.
Michael
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2010
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Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
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If when you go to Latin feel from swing, click on melody top line. then humanise with straight feel and all the notes will go to where you want them.
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BiaB2014
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Remarkable - thanks Chris_Kn!
I'd never have thought of that!
Michael
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