|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
Hi all,
This question comes from a recent (and very good) description Noel provided to me when I asked about uncrowding tight note spacing. I've used BIAB for a couple of decades with good success, and I know that "tick offset" exists in the opt notation window, but I don't have a good feel for what tick offset does? Why is it automatically set? What determines the auto set value? When does one change the tick offset and why?
Thanks,
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506 |
This is a really good question. I don't recall anyone ever asking about it before.
Now, there is a concept of shifting by ticks in Play, Slide Tracks. There is also Melody, Edit Melody Track, Timeshift Melody. Is there somewhere else? Maybe. Which one are you referring to?
I never gave much thought to the default value in Play, Slide Tracks because once you change it, I believe that is global and sticks. [I will have to check that shortly. EDIT: yes.]
As a jazz player, I often use tick offset on the Melody, Soloist and Bass tracks to get the playing in the pocket. For swing tunes, the melody and soloist (harmony) will often be more laid back (positive number in tick offset). For Latin, they will often be anticipated (negative number). The bass especially in Latin jazz is often what is called "on top of the beat" or in other words, early (negative). This becomes more important when you use a hybrid of styles like I often do, i.e. use a non-Latin bass part on a Latin tune.
I think it's terrific that we have the ability to make these adjustments, and tick offset has been with us a very long time, more than a decade at least.
One caveat, and that is when exporting MIDI tracks into a notation program. Having a tick offset too large (in either direction) can make exported notation very strange. A series of quarter notes, for example, can come out as a series of sixteenth rests followed by double dotted eighth notes etc.
I even used the Edit Melody in reverse once. I had a melody that was badly time shifted from another program. I brought it into BIAB, shifted the melody, and exported back, fixing the problem.
Is this helpful?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118 |
There is a bug with this. Beginning with 2014, the user cannot change and save a new tick offset value. It works only as long as the current session remains open. Closing and reopening BIAB resets the tick offset to miscellaneous values depending on the style set. This has been mentioned before in this forum and still not fixed. Needs a fix from PG support. This did work prior to 2014. I'm reffering to the Prefs\Notation\Tick Offset adjustment.
Last edited by DonMusic; 10/13/14 02:27 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489 |
Hi Don,
My experiences is that every time a song is regenerated, tick off-set is set to some value that depends on the style. Like you, I'd appreciate being able to set it to a value of my determining and have that value stick.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118 |
Hi Noel,
I think it was you that mentioned this before. I use this a lot and noticed the problem beginning with 2014. We used to be able to change the setting and it stuck as expected with other "preferences".
Don
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489 |
Hi again, Don. I have mentioned it a couple of times. What makes it unusual is that in BIAB the user has control over pretty much everything with the exception of tick off-set. I'll add it to the wishlist forum again  All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 118 |
I use BIAB with the TC Helicon in live performance and in the studio for vocal effects. Another Pref that does not save since 2014 is: Prefs\OutputCh\Chords. Checking the Chords box stays set only as long as the current session remains open, just like the Tick Offset problem. Every time I start a gig, I have to remember to recheck this box. If it's not rechecked, the TC Helicon will not recognize chord changes and you don't want to hear the resulting harmonies! I'll send this to support.
Don
Last edited by DonMusic; 10/13/14 03:01 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
Thanks for the replies. Matt: yes, your explanation is great in explaining how it applies to the beat.
Noel: I got the impression (perhaps erroneously) that tick offset also affects how the notes are displayed. (Re: my question on how to notate when notes are jammed over each other.) Not the case?
To all: I appreciate your time and help.
Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,489 |
Hi Bob, Yes, tick offset can affect the display of notes as well as the playing of them. It's one of the tools that can be used to obtain the correct display of triplets if the default doesn't work. If you go to the link below and have a look at FAQ #25, you'll get a little more information. http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq35.htm#25Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
Now, there is a concept of shifting by ticks in Play, Slide Tracks. There is also Melody, Edit Melody Track, Timeshift Melody. Is there somewhere else? Maybe. Which one are you referring to?
I was speaking of the tick offset setting in the Notation window options. However, you just reveal two more aspects of BIAB (slide tracks and timeshift melody) that are new to me! Thanks, and I wonder if I will ever fully master BIAB... Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506 |
Will any of us? The fun is in the journey.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
As a jazz player, I often use tick offset on the Melody, Soloist and Bass tracks to get the playing in the pocket. For swing tunes, the melody and soloist (harmony) will often be more laid back (positive number in tick offset). For Latin, they will often be anticipated (negative number). The bass especially in Latin jazz is often what is called "on top of the beat" or in other words, early (negative). This becomes more important when you use a hybrid of styles like I often do, i.e. use a non-Latin bass part on a Latin tune.
Hey Matt: What kind of values are we talking about here? I've seen default values for tick offset as low as -10 and as high as +3. What are you using? I assume you're using Melody, Edit Melody, Timeshift in this case? This is really a fascinating part of BIAB. Thanks, Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506 |
I do it in Play, Slide Tracks. I have used a range from -12 to +6 or so.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
Which brings up another question: in styles that go from swing to bossa and back, is there anyway of changing the tick offset at a particular bar, i.e, making it positive in the swing section and negative in the latin part?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,506 |
No, I don't think so.
I haven't found this to be a problem in composer's demos that I make. However, if it were important, I would take the MIDI into a DAW (I use SONAR), do what's called 'split' the track, and shift the timing of the part(s) that required it.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457
Journeyman
|
|
OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 457 |
Thanks Matt. I'm a Sonar (X1) user as well, so that's the way I'll go should I wish to make separate bar adjustments to the tick offset. (Not that I've ever attempted to time adjust a track in Sonar, but hey, it must be easy, right?  Bob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,697 |
This is tricky stuff that I don't use but if the tick offset is controlled by the style can't you modify the style and save it as a favorite? That should at least help with a gig until PG can make it stick like it used to.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,540
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,540 |
"what is its purpose?"
For one, we would offset the MIDI track that was controlling the lights so they didn't appear to be behind the show time-wise.
And for the track that triggered the shock to the drummer to get his attention .. had to give his reflexes a few mS to realize what happened and get back on the beat..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 824 |
I am one of those who would really appreciate making it 'stick'. It creates a lot of note timing problems when I transfer a BiaB file to a proper notation program (Sibelius etc) for arranging purposes. This did not used to happen when it was sticky. And I can still get around most of the problems but I have to remember to neutralise the settings before creating a midi version.
Even better would be to upgrade the BiaB notation to the same level as the arranging programs. BiaB has so many great features and it would kill the others for sure!
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
Season's Greetings!
Wishing everyone a happy, healthy holiday season—thanks for being part of our community!
The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
Team PG
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,057
Posts799,527
Members40,024
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean