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Hi all,
This question comes from a recent (and very good) description Noel provided to me when I asked about uncrowding tight note spacing. I've used BIAB for a couple of decades with good success, and I know that "tick offset" exists in the opt notation window, but I don't have a good feel for what tick offset does? Why is it automatically set? What determines the auto set value? When does one change the tick offset and why?
Thanks,
Bob
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This is a really good question. I don't recall anyone ever asking about it before.
Now, there is a concept of shifting by ticks in Play, Slide Tracks. There is also Melody, Edit Melody Track, Timeshift Melody. Is there somewhere else? Maybe. Which one are you referring to?
I never gave much thought to the default value in Play, Slide Tracks because once you change it, I believe that is global and sticks. [I will have to check that shortly. EDIT: yes.]
As a jazz player, I often use tick offset on the Melody, Soloist and Bass tracks to get the playing in the pocket. For swing tunes, the melody and soloist (harmony) will often be more laid back (positive number in tick offset). For Latin, they will often be anticipated (negative number). The bass especially in Latin jazz is often what is called "on top of the beat" or in other words, early (negative). This becomes more important when you use a hybrid of styles like I often do, i.e. use a non-Latin bass part on a Latin tune.
I think it's terrific that we have the ability to make these adjustments, and tick offset has been with us a very long time, more than a decade at least.
One caveat, and that is when exporting MIDI tracks into a notation program. Having a tick offset too large (in either direction) can make exported notation very strange. A series of quarter notes, for example, can come out as a series of sixteenth rests followed by double dotted eighth notes etc.
I even used the Edit Melody in reverse once. I had a melody that was badly time shifted from another program. I brought it into BIAB, shifted the melody, and exported back, fixing the problem.
Is this helpful?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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There is a bug with this. Beginning with 2014, the user cannot change and save a new tick offset value. It works only as long as the current session remains open. Closing and reopening BIAB resets the tick offset to miscellaneous values depending on the style set. This has been mentioned before in this forum and still not fixed. Needs a fix from PG support. This did work prior to 2014. I'm reffering to the Prefs\Notation\Tick Offset adjustment.
Last edited by DonMusic; 10/13/14 02:27 PM.
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Hi Don,
My experiences is that every time a song is regenerated, tick off-set is set to some value that depends on the style. Like you, I'd appreciate being able to set it to a value of my determining and have that value stick.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Hi Noel,
I think it was you that mentioned this before. I use this a lot and noticed the problem beginning with 2014. We used to be able to change the setting and it stuck as expected with other "preferences".
Don
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Hi again, Don. I have mentioned it a couple of times. What makes it unusual is that in BIAB the user has control over pretty much everything with the exception of tick off-set. I'll add it to the wishlist forum again  All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I use BIAB with the TC Helicon in live performance and in the studio for vocal effects. Another Pref that does not save since 2014 is: Prefs\OutputCh\Chords. Checking the Chords box stays set only as long as the current session remains open, just like the Tick Offset problem. Every time I start a gig, I have to remember to recheck this box. If it's not rechecked, the TC Helicon will not recognize chord changes and you don't want to hear the resulting harmonies! I'll send this to support.
Don
Last edited by DonMusic; 10/13/14 03:01 PM.
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Thanks for the replies. Matt: yes, your explanation is great in explaining how it applies to the beat.
Noel: I got the impression (perhaps erroneously) that tick offset also affects how the notes are displayed. (Re: my question on how to notate when notes are jammed over each other.) Not the case?
To all: I appreciate your time and help.
Bob
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Hi Bob, Yes, tick offset can affect the display of notes as well as the playing of them. It's one of the tools that can be used to obtain the correct display of triplets if the default doesn't work. If you go to the link below and have a look at FAQ #25, you'll get a little more information. http://www.pgmusic.com/techfaq35.htm#25Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Now, there is a concept of shifting by ticks in Play, Slide Tracks. There is also Melody, Edit Melody Track, Timeshift Melody. Is there somewhere else? Maybe. Which one are you referring to?
I was speaking of the tick offset setting in the Notation window options. However, you just reveal two more aspects of BIAB (slide tracks and timeshift melody) that are new to me! Thanks, and I wonder if I will ever fully master BIAB... Bob
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Will any of us? The fun is in the journey.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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As a jazz player, I often use tick offset on the Melody, Soloist and Bass tracks to get the playing in the pocket. For swing tunes, the melody and soloist (harmony) will often be more laid back (positive number in tick offset). For Latin, they will often be anticipated (negative number). The bass especially in Latin jazz is often what is called "on top of the beat" or in other words, early (negative). This becomes more important when you use a hybrid of styles like I often do, i.e. use a non-Latin bass part on a Latin tune.
Hey Matt: What kind of values are we talking about here? I've seen default values for tick offset as low as -10 and as high as +3. What are you using? I assume you're using Melody, Edit Melody, Timeshift in this case? This is really a fascinating part of BIAB. Thanks, Bob
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I do it in Play, Slide Tracks. I have used a range from -12 to +6 or so.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Which brings up another question: in styles that go from swing to bossa and back, is there anyway of changing the tick offset at a particular bar, i.e, making it positive in the swing section and negative in the latin part?
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No, I don't think so.
I haven't found this to be a problem in composer's demos that I make. However, if it were important, I would take the MIDI into a DAW (I use SONAR), do what's called 'split' the track, and shift the timing of the part(s) that required it.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Thanks Matt. I'm a Sonar (X1) user as well, so that's the way I'll go should I wish to make separate bar adjustments to the tick offset. (Not that I've ever attempted to time adjust a track in Sonar, but hey, it must be easy, right?  Bob
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This is tricky stuff that I don't use but if the tick offset is controlled by the style can't you modify the style and save it as a favorite? That should at least help with a gig until PG can make it stick like it used to.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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"what is its purpose?"
For one, we would offset the MIDI track that was controlling the lights so they didn't appear to be behind the show time-wise.
And for the track that triggered the shock to the drummer to get his attention .. had to give his reflexes a few mS to realize what happened and get back on the beat..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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I am one of those who would really appreciate making it 'stick'. It creates a lot of note timing problems when I transfer a BiaB file to a proper notation program (Sibelius etc) for arranging purposes. This did not used to happen when it was sticky. And I can still get around most of the problems but I have to remember to neutralise the settings before creating a midi version.
Even better would be to upgrade the BiaB notation to the same level as the arranging programs. BiaB has so many great features and it would kill the others for sure!
Grah Jive Talk
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