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I'm creating a 32 bar back up ditty which is in the key of D minor. I have chosen d minor in the Key drop down box.
The last chord, the final bar - the ending of the tune, is a D minor chord.
What do I hear? an F.
Ok, I figure I'll try and out smart BIAB and for the last two bars I have the following ... Dm/D on every beat.
What do I hear? F
How do I get BIAB to play a D in the bass when I've already given the chord as Dm/D?
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Dave, This is most unusual. BIAB only plays the chords it's been instructed to play. The song isn't frozen is it? Any track(s) that is frozen will not regenerate. If this is the case, unfreeze those tracks and then regenerate. Something else to try ... Right-click on the chord chart and then select "Song Settings". Now activate "Force song to simple arrangement". (That's the one above the "Tag" option I have highlighted below.)  Once the "Simple arrangement" has been activated, the song will need regenerating (unfreeze any tracks before doing this). Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi, thanks for the prompt reply! I've already clicked on Force Bass Track To Simply. (With Real Tracks I typically do that anyway just to keep the bass player simple.  ) I've Erased the track, regenerated the track ... same thing. Here's an interesting piece of information. I copied all the chords (CTRL + C) and pasted them into a new SGU file thinking that if I start from scratch (almost from scratch), the problem will go away. For the last two bars where I want Dm/D (to circumvent the problem) ... I can't write Dm/D and have dm/D appear. I clear the bars, go to enter Dm/d,Dm/D ... and what appears is just Dm Dm ... I don't see an option to attach a file here. I will upload this file to my web site ... and perhaps someone here might want to take a look. I should add that all tracks are muted except for bass and drums. Here's the link ... http://members.home.nl/davehorne/Boulevard%20Of%20Broken%20Dreams.SGUThanks in advance
Last edited by davehorne; 01/11/15 12:25 PM.
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F major triad is the first inversion of D minor. Minor chords are often problematic because:
There are three modal minors
1] Dorian
2] Aeolian
3) Phrygian
There are also hartminic monor chords and melodic
It gets deep....
Z
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Actually F major is the relative major of D minor.
The first inversion of a D minor triad is Dm/F (if we're writing this in modern notation).
Last edited by davehorne; 01/12/15 12:54 AM.
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Hi again, Dave. I've already clicked on Force Bass Track To Simple. "Force bass track to simple" does not have the same effect as the "Force song to simple arrangement" that I mentioned above. The one I mentioned, stops BIAB from introducing chord variations (if the RTs make variations possible). I've downloaded the SGU file. Thank you for making that available it helps a great deal. When I generated and played the song, it sounded fine. Also, the particular bass that you use (RT 464) has notation associated with it. If you go to "Notation mode", click on the "B" I've highlighted (#1), you will be able to see the bass's notation. As you can see below, it definitely finished on "D" for me.  For what it is worth, to the best of my knowledge, BIAB has never accepted a slash chord that has a bass that's the same name as the chord root (e.g. Caug/C, D13/D, Am/A, etc.). This would explain why Dm/D does not work for you. BIAB understands the "/D" because of the chord name. One other thing: I noticed that in the song's ending there were two Dm chords. In the ending position, BIAB only interprets and first chord. The second one would have remained unseen by BIAB. This is normal "ending" behaviour for the program. Lastly, I noticed that all tracks have notation attached to them. This is great because it helps to see what is happening when the song is playing. When I looked at the Piano track (see image below), it can be seen that the ending notes are F and C. Without bass, this definitely has an "F" sound quality to it. Sitting on top of the D bass, though, the sound is Dm7 sound rather than F (to my ears, at least).  I have a limited understanding of bossanovas but, as far as I can recall, they often end on a version of the tonic 7th chord. Hope this additional information helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel, I sincerely appreciate your help in this, but even after clicking on Song Settings \ Force Song to Simple Arrangement, ... and Erasing the bass track and regenerating one, the last note in the bass (a Real Track bass) was still an F.
I should add that I've encountered similar behavior in another ditty where the bass instead of ending on the root of the chord in question, ended on the third of that chord. I forget how I resolved that; there is an issue with Real Track bass not ending on the root of the chord in question.
Did you actually get the Real Track bass to end on a D in the SGU file I uploaded?
I tried to view the actual bass notation but only saw chord slashes in the Notation area. Does BIAB display the actual RT parts as notation? I couldn't see that for the bass part. Perhaps this is my fault.
So, my issue is still ... an issue for me.
If you succeeded in getting the RT bass to end on a D, I'd really like to have that SGU file myself.
Thanks, Dave Horne .... davehorne@home.nl
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Problem solved ... I used a different bass player.
EDIT ... I didn't save the change I had made and can't recreate what I did. I ___still___ have the tune ending on an F instead of a D even with 'simple' enabled in two locations/
WAFPITA
It might be worth while for the good folks at BIAB to take a closer look at this. I'll leave that SGU file at my web site for week before I delete it.
Thanks Noel for your help.
All the best, Dave Horne
Last edited by davehorne; 01/11/15 02:23 PM.
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Hi Dave,
Yes, I loaded you song file and generated it. The image in the post of the "D" bass note is from your song file.
To view the bass notation, it's necessary to click on "B" - for bass track - when in notation mode. I've highlighted this "B" in my first image in my previous post. While it's possible to see the notation in Leadsheet mode (again it's necessary to click "B" to the left of the buttons, for "bass track"), I prefer notation mode.
I also tried the "Force simple arrangement" option and it didn't impact on the Dm7 ending. This ending would seem to be set by the artist who recorded the RT.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi Dave,
Yes, I loaded you song file and generated it. The image in the post of the "D" bass note is from your song file.
To view the bass notation, it's necessary to click on "B" - for bass track - when in notation mode. I've highlighted this "B" in my first image in my previous post. While it's possible to see the notation in Leadsheet mode (again it's necessary to click "B" to the left of the buttons, for "bass track"), I prefer notation mode.
I also tried the "Force simple arrangement" option and it didn't impact on the Dm7 ending. This ending would seem to be set by the artist who recorded the RT.
Regards,
Noel is what my BIAB tells me. members.home.nl/davehorne/BIAB.pdf ... You'll have to copy and paste that into your browser Forgetting what the 'notation' tells you, what do you actually hear in the bass at the ending? in the bass part ... an F or a D?
Last edited by davehorne; 01/11/15 02:32 PM.
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I give up.
I redid the tune from scratch in the key of D major to force a D in the bass at the end of the tune. I of course used minor chords ... and still the tune ended on an F in the bass.
I give up.
If someone can recreate this tune (Boulevard of Broken Dreams) in D minor and have the bass player actually end on a D, I'd love to have that SGU file.
I am open to as much advice as anyone can give me.
Thanks in advance ... DH
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I solved this issue ... after having consumed a few glasses of wine in the process.
I erased the bass track, I chose a GM bass sound, generated the track, froze the track, changed the bass part from GM to Real Track.
My word ... should this really have cost me an evening?
What's the point of entering a key signature or chord symbols if Real Track bass players don't 'read' what's in front of them.
Whew ... WAFPITA.
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Great answers above but do not discount that D Minor, at times just has enough of working in those dark dangerous mines and, well, just changes jobs.
Also never discount D Minor who just lives to be 18 years of age.
Now I am ducking and running.
Later,
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Dave, Thank you so much for making the graphic (pdf) available that has cleared things up greatly. Quite honestly, I couldn't have easily solved the problem without the graphic. I hope this is good news but, now that I know what I'm looking for, there is definitely a problem with the bass. Because of the graphic/sgu file combination, I can reproduce the F bass ending for the Dm chord. Let me explain ... If you zip back a couple of posts of mine, you'll see that I mentioned Realtrack (RT) #464 as the bass RT native to the style (and the one I used that gave me the correct D bass, and notation). When you look at your pdf (see the image below), though, you'll see that the Realtrack that's being used by you is RT 921.  RT 921 is DEFINITELY problematic. I have advised support about this and have referred them to this thread. Why you had a problem .... At the beginning of the name of your Bass (and Piano) RT, there's a "~~" occurring. Thanks to Videotrack who isolated this a couple of days ago, this double "~~" is indicating that your Realtrack is a subtituted RT because you are using the style at a tempo that is significantly outside of the tempo for what's recommended for this particular style. If you go to "Opt | Preferences | Realtracks", you can disable this 'Auto-substitute' feature. Please see the graphic below.  On my system, I disabled this long ago and so when I loaded your song file, all was fine and the original RT 464 played bass. This gave the correct result. On your system, the auto-substitute is active and because your tempo of 115 is well below the tempo of 140 for which the style is designed, the bass was automatically substituted to RT 971. RT 971 does not have notation attached and does have an ending problem. As already mentioned, I have advised Support about this. Hope this insight helps! All the best, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Noel, thanks for your help in this.
My needs for this program are minimal and it can get very frustrating when my simple needs turn into an entire evening for one 32 bar file.
Thanks ... let's hope the good folks at BIAB follow through.
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I've had this happen if I try to have a chord change during the "ending". To fix, I move the ending down a few measures then fix in a DAW. Not sure if this is what's happening here, or not.
Rich
Windows 10, 64 bit | BIAB 2019 PlusPak | Studio One 2 Artist
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Noel, ever think of working for NCIS? Your investigative prowess and tenacity is quite impressive. 
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2025, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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LOL!
I'm not that clever, Mountainside. These forums really are about a group effort. I run into a brick wall and then someone says something that gets me thinking along different lines. Often there's just another brick wall or ten awaiting a little further up the road. Eventually, though, with enough sharing of ideas, we all get somewhere.
That old saying about "the sum is greater than the parts" is definitely true in these problem-solving forums.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Great answers above but do not discount that D Minor, at times just has enough of working in those dark dangerous mines and, well, just changes jobs.
Also never discount D Minor who just lives to be 18 years of age.
Now I am ducking and running.
Later, Now he is Knocking the mic, asking is this thing on? Hey I'm having fun anyway. Later folks,
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