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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 38
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OP
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I think I have caught Ketron fever. The sounds are mesmerizing. They even have our very own Mac with a demo.
So, some concerns:
- I don't see it listed in the synth drop downs
- It (seems to) sound better than the Roland SD20... my imagination?
- Can I use it with BIAB/RB and a keyboard/MIDI controller?
- Anybody have any issues, tips?
I finally have my BB, RB, RD, RT set up right and hate to mess with it but I can't help but think this will upgrade my siund dramatically from the Forte Dxi synth I'm using now...
Thanks in advance for any help...
Ray
Singer / Songwriter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi
You won`t see the SD2 in the synth dropdown menu,what you will see is the Driver that you are using,i have the Audigy 2 and you see the input and output drivers in your list
there shoud be no change in your setup once you have the SD2 connected thats it in BIAB in Realband you do have to set it up a bit more but not much
i don`t think there is any cons atall once you have it installed in BIAB
regards Dave Hoskins
I always play the right notes but not always in the right order
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Was an easy setup. And once the trivers are set and selected you can down load a patch map to help in finding the patches for SD2.
PM
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2005
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Journeyman
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How do you get the SD2s-audio-output back to your PC for hd-recording? Connecting the SD2s audio-out chinchs with soundcards audio-in? What about latency when sounds going first by Midi to SD2 and than by Audio back into soundcard?
regards Ralf
Last edited by ralfboe; 03/11/09 01:25 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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1. There is no latency at all, even if you run a usb cable out and back into the computer, once it is setup you chose an instrument from the thru function beside the melody at the top and chose an instrument. That is assuming you have a keyboard you want to use with it.
2. The patch map is on the website here and you download it. Just leave the synth selection at GM/GS and when you go to chose an instrument you can pick from the list once you identify the Ketron.
My synth is a Roland Rogers W50 and I have the Roland JV1010 but the Ketron is way better.
So my setup invovles the computer, the wee hard drive I got the works on (so I can change and run the software on each level of the house if |I want), Edirol usb midi in out gizmo, the line outs from my W50 synth to my mixer, the line outs of the ketron to the mixer. I tend to use the organ sounds a lot, and accordian if I'm doing Celtic.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 188
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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The sound quality is the best I've found (to my ear). And, as has been noted, the setup is straightforward. However, I found with changing to the Ketron (as well as any change in synth) required me to rebalance my repertoire. By that I mean the volumes. On my system, for example (Audigy2), the strings settings that worked with VSC DXI or with Soundfonts were way too loud through the Ketron. The instrument volumes from synth to synth seem to really differ. And, depending on the size of your collection of BIAB songs, a switch to the Ketron could lead to quite a bit of work. But worth it, in my opinion.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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This is great feedback. Sounds like my only remaining concern is how I can get a keyboard / controller in the mix. Their site says: " Used in conjunction with a Computer, Master keyboard, Midi accordion or Midiguitar..." The key word there is "OR". I can see how it will work with BB as the sequencer. But what if I want to use a keyboard to "input" MIDI data to a RB track? Like maybe add a track with some percussion or some synth hits. Looking at the user manual http://www.ketron.com/specs_descrit.asp?mod=SD2&action=download doesn't quite answer my concern. I think the keyboard MIDI out would have to go into the Ketron MIDI thru, but not sure. I am working from a laptop and would have to use one of those MIDI-USB thingies. The other (more expensive) choice is the Roland Sonic Cell. That seems to solve a lot of issues but it's about 2X the $. Thanks for the help so far. This is very encouraging...
Ray
Singer / Songwriter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Apprentice
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The simplest way to hook up the SD2 (or anything similar) is to:
1 Connect the computer midi out to the SD2 midi INPUT
2 Connect computer midi INPUT to the SD2 midi in
3 Connect your keyboard to another MIDI INPUT on the computer - assuming you have at least 2 midi input ports on your computer. If you only have one, then add another port. USB-Midi ports are the simplest way to do that. Or if you get a single MIDI device that has 2 Midi IN and 2 Midi OUT's will work and sometimes simplify hooking up more than 1 midi device.
I assumed that your midi keyboard does not have USB connector (new ones do, old ones don't).
If you do as in steps 1-3 you will have complete computer based control (both in and out) of the SD2 synth. This means you can have BnBox send and receive midi data from the SD2. Also your midi keyboard or other controller will be able to send midi input to the SD2 or anything else (software synths) via the computer. You won't need to send midi data to the midi keyboard unless it also contains a synth which you want to play.
Best,
Dan
Last edited by Dan Tong; 03/11/09 08:38 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ray,
The SD2 has two midi connectors on the back. The MIDI In and the MIDI Thru. The MIDI In takes the information from whatever source, your keyboard, or BIAB, and runs the information to the sounds, the MIDI thru sends the data coming in out to another synth.
Yes, you *can* use the SD2 with both BIAB and a Master Keyboard at the same time.
Using a MIDI interface, your choice of which, run the MIDI OUT to the MIDI In of the SD2.
Run the MIDI OUT of the Keyboard to the MIDI IN of the interface.
Inside BIAB, open your MIDI Device Drivers under the Options tab, and select the MIDI interface as your MIDI In device, and then the MIDI Interface as the output device (so, if you're using an Audigy 2, you would use the MIDI interface on that, and select the Audigy MIDI In and Out as your interface). Then, go to Preferences, MIDI Options, and select MIDI Thru and turn it On. This will take the incoming data from the keyboard, and re-route it back to the SD2. You *should* be able to select the instrument patch you want to hear when you select the Thru instrument and whatever sound you want to hear from the drop down menu, or the Higher Banks dialog box, if you use the SD2 .pat file.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have the Edirol usb gizmo, one usb plug and midi out and midi in.
Plug that into the laptop.
And into the Ketron.
The audio out from the Ketron goes to the mixer.
One then uses the Opt. Midi setup. Edirol will be there if it is plugged in before the program is fired up.
Now when you chose midi through it will emulate whatever patch you wish.
If you have room on your mixer you can also jack out the audio to your mixer and play multiple 'layers' of sound.
I do not capture midi data, I've almost never had to enter whatever into the computer because it either exists or can be found elsewhere and imported.
It is my contention that if you can play it into the computer as midi data, why do you want to do that instead of playing it 'live'.
I know everyone's workflow is different, but when I first started out I tried that route and then left it alone, it was not worth the effort.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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John Quote:
It is my contention that if you can play it into the computer as midi data, why do you want to do that instead of playing it 'live'.
I don't use midi (yet), but I think the argument would be: You never know what sampling engines are coming down the road. If you capture the midi out as "live" only, then that will always be your final "sound". However, if you save it as midi and then the Ketron Super-X comes out next year, you can just use that and everything will sound better.
Kevin
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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We're talking Biab here. A biab song is already midi. That's what John's talking about. You only worry about recording your live midi playing if you're recording your own melody or solo track. As John says I usually don't have to bother recording a midi melody because I can find it on the net somewhere as a midi file and just import it.
Real Band or another sequencer is a different thing. You could easily use a midi keyboard/guitar/wind controller to record all kinds of different parts into a multitrack program.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have multiple uses for Band in a Box.
1. Practice, both keyboards and horn, and sometimes pennywhistle.
2. Experimentation.
3. Make a backing track and then play it when a friend brings his horn and I have the keyboard, though I don't do much of that, about 4 times a year.
4. Same as above, but I print the piano backing track, render a file, and my pal Pete sings while band in a box and I jam. (of course in the previous 2 instances I print then mute the melody.)
5. Making 'scores' for videos.
I remember spending hours trying to get a Mozart piece into band in a box. Putting in notes by hand, finding the chords, etc., only to find a midi file at classicalmusicarchives.
and ending up importing it in seconds. And as a recreational hacker/jazzer if I improvise I'm not selling it, it's just John, not Oscar Peterson. And I change it every time, except for some constant riffs I made up for stuff like Satin Doll. Even then you need to modify the piece to suit the audience, if they are not jazz people, no sense in going in to some strange key and using the minor third and running the thing through the world music genres before coming back to the melody, especially if they are singing along or seem to know the song.
You can find most songs from the 20's to the 90's somewhere in band in a box format and if not in midi. If you get stuck for material, get one of Norton's Fake books and the backing tracks, and happy days are here again....
Not saying some folks who are younger and learning might get an education playing into the system and seeing the notes and rooting (HA) out the mis-takes. (Double Pun intended). But at the end of the day your ears should be the judge and heaven knows I'm postive I'm needing to find the half step resolution to the wrong note. Actually there are no wrong notes, they belong somewhere in another song..!!!!
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Posts: 38
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Quote:
John
Quote:
It is my contention that if you can play it into the computer as midi data, why do you want to do that instead of playing it 'live'.
I don't use midi (yet), but I think the argument would be: You never know what sampling engines are coming down the road. If you capture the midi out as "live" only, then that will always be your final "sound". However, if you save it as midi and then the Ketron Super-X comes out next year, you can just use that and everything will sound better.
Kevin
As a someone who would not qualify as a even a hack keyboard player, I'm not really looking to record "live" midi, per se. As a songwriter/composer (guitar based), my main goal would be to add certain riffs to a project. Now, last night, I discovered how easy it is to create a custom drum style using the grid editor. That is really cool. (I'm hoping that I can access some of Ketron's better drum sounds with that - please correct me if I'm wrong)
However, when I went to input a bass line, I was lost. (OK it was late and a couple beers later  ) As someone who mostly plays by ear on keys, it seems like I could have used a MIDI keyboard to input some bass notes into my custom style. (Right?) And if I want to change the instrument from acoustic bass to fretless bass, I should be able to do that at playback time.
As for playing "live" - I would see this as adding a color track to a recording, whether that be a backing track or a demo.
So that would be my workflow. It sounds like this is all possible with the Ketron...
Ray
Singer / Songwriter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The Ketron's Drums are way better in my opinion than most other midi solutions.
As to Bass Lines Realbass is a good solution. I mean I've played with guys who are ok, but in the key of C it goes
C G C G C G G ;yawn.....
LOL
I really like the organs, the accordian, and the trumpets in the Ketron, just to name a few.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Gary - you rock! Thank you for the info. Looks like there's a Ketron in my future.
Now I have one more detail - the MIDI-USB interface. Right now I don't have a MIDI interface. I do have an e-Mu 0202 for an audio interface and I have finally mastered that. Works great, pretty quiet, but 1-channel audio only and it ties up one of my 3 available USB ports. I was thinking of upgrading the e-Mu 0202 to the 0404 with MIDI, and use that as the MIDI support for the Ketron. I'm thinking about fewer connections and less power draw on the laptop. That should work, right?
I'm also considering the Edirol Firewire (FA-66) interface, which would support both MIDI and audio through the FW port.
Any thoughts on that? Would the FW connection pose potential a potential problem with the Ketron where it's looking for a USB?
Many thanks to you and the entire PG community. I've made more progess since the first of the year than my first 3 years with BIAB. Much is owed to the RB integration - it changed my who workflow (for the considerably better!).
Ray
Singer / Songwriter
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The SD2 is not "looking"for USB.
It has a standard round MIDI connect and any soundcard or device that provides standard MIDI output from computer should work fine.
0404 is good choice.
--Mac
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
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