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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OP
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Is there such a feature or if there isnt why not make one:
A RealTrack (guitar 'note by note') that actually creates a Real Track guitar tab (play) using musical notes entered in either the Melody or Solo Channel)
Meaning, instead of some Piano sample like Bandstand etc... BIAB will record all of the possible guitar notes (one by one; fingerpicking) so that if we enter a guitar tab, or guitar musical notation, BIAB will fetch those guitar samples NOTE BY NOTE but this time in REAL Tracks.
(GuitarPro accepts guitar tabs as inputs and plays these notes, one by one with a guitar synthesizer; the result is quite good)
But, we need BIAB to to do it inside BIAB program.
The RealTracks being offered are for Rhytthm and the fingerpicking is generic. Why not a fingerpicking using Guitar tab entries?
I think conceptually this is easy to do because all PGMUSIC has to do is get a guitarist to pluck a string one note at a time an record its corresponding guitar tab position.
Last edited by Asian Sun; 05/26/09 12:20 PM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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This idea has come up before.
Problem with the idea is that it would do no more than current technology MIDI sampler would, likely sounding worse due to the loop point issue.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 791
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 791 |
The closest you could get to this is using something like Bandstand or Garritan.
In order for RealTracks to play written melodies, there would have to be an infinite amount of phrase variations recorded so Band-in-a-Box could find and assemble an arrangement seemlessly.
If each note was sampled individually, then it wouldn't sound like a RealTrack (it would sound more like Bandstand).
Blake
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75
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OP
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Somehow I wasnt referrring to "infinite" amount of phrasing variations Maybe I just dont know how MIDI works. From a user viewpoint, here's what I had in mind as what I have seen in Guitar Pro: 1. The user inputs the tab arrangement. This is not infinite. There are only a limited number of tab positions. For example in Fret 1, there are only 12 positions (6 open, and 6 closed). For Fret 2, again 6 positions, for Fret 2 until Fret 12 for example (12 x 12 = 144 positions) 2. Whatever the combination is inputted by the user, BIAB does not care. All it does is play the certain tab (e.g. Fret 5, 3rd string, closed) position, singly ONE by ONE. 3. The different b/n Guitar Pro and BIAB is that BIAB can use a real guitar sound (acoustic, for example) and that it can do the synch with other tracks. I was tempted to generated from Guitar Pro from the latter can be recorded only from the Sound Card, and not from the VSTi, and also synching Guitar Pro track with BIAB tracks in a sequencer like Audition or Sonar become a time consuming play or accuracy in positioning the track. 4. Can BIAB assign codes to specific guitar tabs (NOTE by NOTE) and generate it? That would make BIAB the ultimate music software... because there thousands of Eric Clapton and Eric Burdon and Eric Carmen guitar tabs out there... Quote:
The closest you could get to this is using something like Bandstand or Garritan.
In order for RealTracks to play written melodies, there would have to be an infinite amount of phrase variations recorded so Band-in-a-Box could find and assemble an arrangement seemlessly.
If each note was sampled individually, then it wouldn't sound like a RealTrack (it would sound more like Bandstand).
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Maybe I just dont know how MIDI works.
Go with that thought (grin).
What you are leaving out are the critical Note Durations of each sample.
Among a few other things. but let's start there.
I've created soundbanks for MIDI synths (Soundfont, Gigasampler, a few other formats) where an instrument was painstakingly sampled note by note and recorded in a studio setting one note at a time. After the recording process, the real work begins. That is where one must edit each and every note for the critical "loop points" -- places where the sample can be turned on itself to be repeated to make a longer length note duration as specified by the MIDI file or the user playing in real time -- but that loop point must be undetectable in sound. This is not an easy task.
On top of the loop points, there is also the very critical loudness factor of each note, which is typically done by creating LAYERS of samples, corresponding to MIDI Velocity data. An inexpensive sample might have 3 volume layers, more intricate work can involve 9 or more, each a separate sample that is fired depending upon the Velocity data for the specified note. Equivalent of when you choose to pick lightly, pick with a strum motion, or "dig in" with the pick. We haven't even discussed those times when a guitarist might use plectrum plus a finger or two, which would demand some more sample layers -- BUT there is not way to really control that in the aging MIDI standard -- which leads to all sorts of nonstandard workarounds. And then there are thos hammer-ons and pulloffs that you take for granted when you play them. The ADSR of each sample is locked as to what it was when sampled. The same would apply to your scenario of trying to chop up a RealTrack file to do this, only the problem would be much worse simply because of the sheer complexity of trying to chop up the file each time and make everything, loop points, amplitudes, etc. fit together. This is why the RealTracks pick out phrases played over changes rather than single notes.
Anyway, what you are trying to invent has already been invented, it has nothing to do with the concept and sound of RealTracks as invented by PGMusic.
What you are attempting to describe is a rather simple MIDI Sampling device.
The world is full of those and we all know the limitations of them by now.
--Mac
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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OP
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Thanks for giving us an idea of how hard it is to do that. In the meantime, this software called REAL GUITAR, is implementing what we are discussing about. There has go to be a merger of BIAB and this REAL guitar company... http://www.musiclab.com/products/realgtr_info.htm?r1=gadw&r2=rgsee the link.. very interesting he has GUITAR samples..
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
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I said: Quote:
-- BUT there is not way to really control that in the aging MIDI standard -- which leads to all sorts of nonstandard workarounds.
Musiclab says:
Quote:
Our original Guitar Touch technology letting you easily imitate basic guitar techniques (strumming, plucking, sliding, bending, muting, etc..), using standard MIDI keyboard and MIDI controllers, such as Pitch Bender, Modulation Wheel, Sustain Pedal, Aftertouch.
Likely only the Pitch Bend command is actually doing what it is supposed to do under the MIDi standard, the other three must be nonstandard workarounds in the sense that they are doing something other than what they were originally designed to do.
A program like BIAB or RB would have to be programmed to take that into consideration in order to work well with the customized commands.
There have been other attempts to do things such as this with the aging MIDI standard, Garritan comes immediately to mind, problem with all is that one must program the MIDI files specifically for the software instrument(s) in order to hear the differences.
And it is not RealTrack technology at all, it is indeed Sampling.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75 |
Thanks for the enlightenment Mac!! Quote:
I said:
Quote:
-- BUT there is not way to really control that in the aging MIDI standard -- which leads to all sorts of nonstandard workarounds.
Musiclab says:
Quote:
Our original Guitar Touch technology letting you easily imitate basic guitar techniques (strumming, plucking, sliding, bending, muting, etc..), using standard MIDI keyboard and MIDI controllers, such as Pitch Bender, Modulation Wheel, Sustain Pedal, Aftertouch.
Likely only the Pitch Bend command is actually doing what it is supposed to do under the MIDi standard, the other three must be nonstandard workarounds in the sense that they are doing something other than what they were originally designed to do.
A program like BIAB or RB would have to be programmed to take that into consideration in order to work well with the customized commands.
There have been other attempts to do things such as this with the aging MIDI standard, Garritan comes immediately to mind, problem with all is that one must program the MIDI files specifically for the software instrument(s) in order to hear the differences.
And it is not RealTrack technology at all, it is indeed Sampling.
--Mac
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
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Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
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This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
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You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
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-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
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- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
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Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
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Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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