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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have BIAB 2014 and have a question about getting realistic sound output on my songs. I am using Coyote and wonder if there is any better way to get realistic instrument sounds. What equipment do I need to add to my setup? I'm using a laptop w/Win 10
Music is what feelings sound like.
Windows 11, Behringer UMC204HD Audio Interface, BIAB/RB 2022 Ultra Pak Plus
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ray answered about RealTracks, but they won't let you hear your melody, since the RT phrases are pre-recorded. To play specific notes and phrases, you need to use MIDI. I'm presuming that you mean the Coyote WT that comes with BIAB/RealBand. However, all the Coyote WT does is "wrap" the default MIDI sounds that come with Windows. It's a way to get you up and running with a DXi synth without having a DXi synth. As such, it isn't going to sound very good. For $40, you can get the Coyote Forte GM2 DXi synth, which will give you better sounds, but not great sounds. For about the same amount, you can get a copy of CakeWalk Music Creator 7, which will include the TTS-1 General MIDI GM2 DXi synth. It's similar to the Coyote Forte in sound quality, but also different. It really depends upon the sounds you are looking for. And then you can spend even more money from there. Check out the products from IK-Multimedia or Native Instruments to step up another level. You can also use hardware synths (either a keyboard or dedicated synth unit), but you can't "render" those to audio - you have to "record" the whole song to get an audio file. While they can sound great, you have to account for more time to capture your creation (a 4 minute song takes 4 minutes to render; likewise, rendering individual tracks take that time to render). With a DXi or VSTi synth, rendering to audio takes a few seconds. Another free option you can pursue is to use Soundfonts. There are some free/low cost soundfont players and a ton of free sound fonts available on the web. However, soundfont technology is pretty much dying away; but you can still get some pretty decent sounds. Fantasize Soundfont Player costs $29. Synthfont costs 15 euro. You can google for others.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Real tracks are basically non-editable.
A nice sound module like a Ketron SD2 will do wonders. I admit I haven't heard a lot of MIDI modules, but this one has the best General MIDI sound set I've heard. It makes the coyote sound like a kazoo in comparison.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Agree with the Ketron (but I'm biased, since I have one).
The sounds really are great.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Agree with the Ketron (but I'm biased, since I have one).
The sounds really are great.
I'm with Notes and John. The Ketron is impressive for both its size and price.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Agree with the Ketron (but I'm biased, since I have one).
The sounds really are great.
I'm with Notes and John. The Ketron is impressive for both its size and price. I'm with them. My friend JonD has the Ketron and it is the best sounding GM sound source that I have ever heard.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Ketron/Solton. If you haven't experienced this sound, you have no idea what you've been missing. Allan
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I should clarify.
The Ketron is awesome for MIDI sounds.
I agree with Ray though about the RealTracks.
Horses for courses
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Have to add my two cents. Software synth-wise, I have a hand-full, including most of what comes with SONAR version 5 and X1 (TTS-1, ZT3A+, Dimension Pro, Pentagon, Studio Instruments, Session Drummer, Rapture and True Piano) Granted, none of those are high-dollar high-end soft synths. I also have Coyote, Sample Tank, and Garritan. I'll use Coyote with BB only as a quick and dirty draft. With Notion, I'll used either the Notion instruments, Garritan or Dimension Pro, and my hardware synths. With SONAR, I use a variety of those SONAR associated synths, and always use one of both of my Yamaha hardware synths (classic Motif keyboard and rack-mount Motif ES). I use the rack Motif ES for my synth-enabled guitars. Even though my Yamaha synths are long in the tooth, for both live and studio, they are hard to beat for realism and extremely low propagation delay compared to soft synths. With programmable velocity and after-touch, and, the Yamaha breath transducer, you can get some realistic flute and sax such as reed/breath chirps. There is a large degree of control and customization available in these hardware synths that don't require another VST plug-in. Now, if I looked at the newest Yamaha Series, I definitely would be writing a large check...but they are astounding. The software synths definitely have come up in quality, but I don't have any software glitches in either of my hardware synths or bus competition to deal with. And, unlike some of the software synths (usually mid to high-end), I don't have to connect to the internet just to re-validate a license.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Agree with the Ketron (but I'm biased, since I have one).
The sounds really are great.
I have a dozen synths and synth modules by Yamaha, Edirol, Roland, Korg, and Ketron. The collection includes an SD90 with some fantastic, realistic sounds and an XV-5050 with thousands of great synth sounds. I also have a few software synths (I prefer hardware but I explored softsynths). Of all of these, Ketron has the best General MIDI bank. I export from BiaB and work in a DAW. I can assign different tracks to different sound modules, and I almost always include many SD2 tracks, sometimes more than any other synth. I can even change the sound of an instrument. My SD90 has dozens of guitars, Tele rear or front pickup, 335, LP, Strat, and others with more generic names. Plus sometimes that piano might sound better as a Rhodes, the guitar as a Clav, the brass as synvox, and so on. I always 'explode' the drum track so I can put the kick on a channel with no FX, assign different modules to different drums, and again, there are usually at least a couple of SD2 drums in there. I mix Real Tracks with MIDI tracks, and use the RTs when they are just right for the song I'm doing. But if they aren't just right, I'll prefer a MIDI track because I can edit it, doing thousands of things that aren't available with RTs. BiaB and a DAW are my toys, and I like to pay with my toys. MIDI gives me thousands of ways to play with the music that RTs don't. We have a few tools in our musical took kit. Sometimes the RT is right for the job, and sometimes MIDI is right for the job. Using the right tool for the job ends up with the best results for your music. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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I'm very new to the BIAB 2016. Am I correct in my assumption that with the proper script file, I can use the voices from my Tyros 5 in place of the Coyote MIDI voices built into BIAB? As you likely know, the Tyros 5 voices are quite stellar. Thanks.
- Lee
Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Yes, but no script is really needed. Grab the patch file from here: http://www.pgmusic.com/support_miscellaneous.htmIn the top section of the above page there are links with information on how to use them for BiaB, RB, and PT. Your only challenges will be Getting the MIDI from BiaB to the synth (MIDI Out port) and Getting the sound from the Tyros (mixed in with any other needed sound sources) to your monitors. The Patch file I mentioned is only needed so all your Tyros factory patches can be easily accessed. If you only need the GM sounds, it will not be needed. You will need a way to get MIDI to the Tyros (USB ?) and then the sound from the Tyros to your ears in either scenario.
Last edited by rharv; 05/14/16 07:18 AM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 145
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Apprentice
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Gear: Tyros 5, MOX8, SoundCraft EFX12 mixer, two Bose L1 Compacts, Yamaha HS-8 monitors, BIAB 2016 UltraPlusPAK, Cubase 8, Steinberg UR-44 interface.
"If everyone played a musical instrument, we wouldn't need police officers or armies." Lee B.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 671
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Ray answered about RealTracks, but they won't let you hear your melody, since the RT phrases are pre-recorded. To play specific notes and phrases, you need to use MIDI. I'm presuming that you mean the Coyote WT that comes with BIAB/RealBand. However, all the Coyote WT does is "wrap" the default MIDI sounds that come with Windows. It's a way to get you up and running with a DXi synth without having a DXi synth. As such, it isn't going to sound very good. For $40, you can get the Coyote Forte GM2 DXi synth, which will give you better sounds, but not great sounds. For about the same amount, you can get a copy of CakeWalk Music Creator 7, which will include the TTS-1 General MIDI GM2 DXi synth. It's similar to the Coyote Forte in sound quality, but also different. It really depends upon the sounds you are looking for. And then you can spend even more money from there. Check out the products from IK-Multimedia or Native Instruments to step up another level. You can also use hardware synths (either a keyboard or dedicated synth unit), but you can't "render" those to audio - you have to "record" the whole song to get an audio file. While they can sound great, you have to account for more time to capture your creation (a 4 minute song takes 4 minutes to render; likewise, rendering individual tracks take that time to render). With a DXi or VSTi synth, rendering to audio takes a few seconds. Another free option you can pursue is to use Soundfonts. There are some free/low cost soundfont players and a ton of free sound fonts available on the web. However, soundfont technology is pretty much dying away; but you can still get some pretty decent sounds. Fantasize Soundfont Player costs $29. Synthfont costs 15 euro. You can google for others. John thank you for outlining this subject in a way I can understand. I just happen to be evaluating how to utilize soft synths, and which to consider.
Last edited by dga; 05/14/16 07:32 AM.
"When you help somebody else you are really helping yourself"
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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google + free vst instruments
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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google + free vst instruments Also google/bing Kontakt Player. This is a stripped down version of Kontakt. It comes with some sounds and many third party patches will work with it. Native Instruments also has other free players that you might want to look into. IKMultiMedia also has a free SampleTank 3.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I know that different tools are for different people, and what is best for me isn't necessarily best for everybody. I'm not really wild about soft synths, VST or otherwise. Why? - External hardware synths have a longer shelf life. I still use my 1980s TX81z and MT32 - I got them when Win3.1 was on the PC and Mac used OS6 on Macs with Motorola CPUs. With all the OS changes and orphaned software synths, my old ones still work. Some of the sounds are still great, and I can mix them with the newer sounds of my more recent synths
- External synths have minimal drain on the computer's CPU making it more stable (fewer glitches/crashes). The soft synth requires the CPU to 'do the math' for every note played and ever expressive device use.
- Since external synths don't tax the CPU I can put a dozen of more synths into the mix. I can use the great Dr.Solo sound of my MT32 on one track, the woody acoustic bass of my i3 on another, the great mute guitar of my SD2 on another, the Tele rear pickup sound of my SD90 on another, the FM Rhodes of my TX81z on another and so on, choosing the best patch from my array for each part on the song. Since the sounds are in ROM and/or created by the sound module and not the computer, I could probably use 256 synths with no performance problems on my computer.
- External synths all have about the same latency, 5 or 6ms. That means I can mix a dozen or more synths, and they are synchronized. I've seen soft synths with almost a half second latency, try adjusting that track with one that has a quarter of a second latency.
I started with a DDD5 drum, added the TX and MT shortly after when my keyboard broke, and added newer synths when needed. If I used soft synths I would have had to replace them when OS upgrades happened, and then again when the next upgrade happened, and again and again, making them not only longer lasting but in the long run less expensive than soft synths. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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All quite reasonable points, Notes.
But I especially have to concur with the first one. Ain't that the truth!
How many times have we upgraded hardware and operating systems only to then find we have to leave perfectly working software behind.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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It's a problem with computers.
I have a 1925 alto sax that works perfectly. I have synth modules that I bought in the 1980s that work perfectly. I have a guitar that was made in 1970 that works perfectly.
But software that worked in the first versions of OSX won't work anymore, and software that worked fine on Win7 won't work on 8.1, much less 10.
There are probably dozens of software synths that will not work on the newest OS from either Microsoft or Apple.
I make my living by playing music live. Why would I want to learn to depend on a soft synth sound for up to 500 songs only to find one day that the synth will no longer work on the new computer OS?
The sparkle of some of the FM synthesized melodic percussion sounds have really never been duplicated by the modern ROM based synths. So my TX81z and DS8 have an important place in my songs, Rhodes, Vibes, and a few others are stellar.
Dr Solo in my MT-32 is a great voice, and newer editions of it that don't use L-A synthesis just don't cut it.
My VL70m synths recreate solo sax, trumpet and many other instruments with the nuances that no other synth not using Physical Modeling synthesis can do, and currently, nobody makes a PM synth.
If I were using software synths, all of these sounds would be gone for me now, and I would miss them dearly - plus, I just wouldn't be able to make music that sounds as good anymore.
That's not to say more modern synths are no good, they excel in different sounds.
And that's the beauty of hardware synths. I can mix the old sounds with the new and get the best of both.
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
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