|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427
Veteran
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427 |
I was thinking of reworking an old composition of mine using BIAB to provide perhaps bass and keyboard parts, but I can't input it properly to BIAB. The trouble is this, I did the drum parts on a drum machine (I no longer have) and went by feel, etc. and as a musician with no formal training I can't now quite figure out what time signatures I composed! I think it may be 3/4 (12/8?) but parts feel more 4/4 to me, like the parts 'When will love break my fall'. Could someone take a listen and tell me what meter(s) I inadertently programmed back then? Many thanks.  'What Might Have Been' John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
John, it sounds like slow 4 to me also, with a definite triplet feel in places. Purt nice programming on the drum machine.
The guitar work at the end is gorgeous. Can't wait to hear the reworked version.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,616
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,616 |
Hi John. Your song feels like it is in 12/8. One bar of 12/8 can be beat in a slow four count, at metronome marking 65. Look for a slow ballad style that gives the 12/8 feel. It might be easier on the eyes to notate it in 6/8, though it could just as easily be written in 4/4. There were two spots where a beat was dropped to make things interesting.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,634
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,634 |
The song definitely sounds 12/8 to me. The counting for this would be:
1 and ah, 2 and ah, 3 and ah, 4 and ah. (12 distinct beats).
When you can say "Canada" and it fits the rhythm of each main beat, you know you have 12/8 (or mabye 6/8). John, the reason your song sounds 12/8 to me is because I can also hear 4 distinct beats - these are split into triplets. In 6/8, there would only be two distinct beats (like a march).
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,916
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,916 |
Hi John, First of all this is one fantastic song. Great vox and super guitar parts.
I agree with the others that this is 12/8 or a slow 4/4. If you were going to print notation parts I would definitely use 4/4. That way the notation will be accurate.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
The Intro is in Even Feel 4, actually two bars of 4/4 straight, then the song starts in a 6/8 feel but at the same Tempo as the quarter note beat of the intro.
That 6/8 could be done as a 12/8 also, with half as many bars. The reason I am emphatic about it being 6/8 has to do with how your lyric line subdivides the beat. That makes it a 6 and not really a 12. However, it is relatively common to notate such as 12/8 to avoid the "march trio" interpretation from chart readers.
OR -- a 2/4 Triplet divided Swing style, or a 4/4 style that is triplet divided, often described as a "12/8" style.
Good job.
Especially like the bit of Ear Candy at the end, icing on the cake sort of thing.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576 |
Wow! First off I just want to say this song is fantastic. Brings out some kind of feeling in me from my past. (Looooong agoooo)  It's definitely a 12/8 with an arpedgio feeling to it. I opened BIAB and set the key to EM. I found a country gospel style called, "C_Gospel Country Gospel Style 12/8", wrote an EM chord and let it fly. The start isn't right but the rhythm is about identicle. I set the tempo to 90 and got it pretty close. Too much reverb on the vox but the guitar was nothing short of splendid. Good on ya Mate. It's a keeper. BTW I've never heard this one before. Is it an original or cover?
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576 |
Quote:
The Intro is in Even Feel 4, actually two bars of 4/4 straight, then the song starts in a 6/8 feel but at the same Tempo as the quarter note beat of the intro.
That 6/8 could be done as a 12/8 also, with half as many bars. The reason I am emphatic about it being 6/8 has to do with how your lyric line subdivides the beat. That makes it a 6 and not really a 12. However, it is relatively common to notate such as 12/8 to avoid the "march trio" interpretation from chart readers.
--Mac
I agree with that. I tried the 6/8 style, "C_68 Feel W 8 Country 6 8 feel". It does give the same feel but the 12/8 is fuller. It's more arpegiatted sounding. Easier on the ears and soul. I supposed you could mix 'em up a bit. Use it in a part marker or such. Man I love Band in a box! 
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427 |
Thanks guys! That's got me on the right track. Thanks also for the complements Ryszard, Mario, Mac, Russ, greatly appreciated. Maybe I should leave well enough alone! It's just that when I originally recorded this I didn't have Sonar and I 'printed' the reverb on my ADAT tapes. You're right Russ, beginners error there, too much reverb. Also, now I can replace the Alesis SR16 drum machine sounds with the ultra realistic Addictive Drums, which I think are just amazing. You guys tried them yet? Russ, many thanks for finding that style, it's set me off now. And yes, Russ it's an original song of mine, yearning for lost youth now, so had to set the feelings down! The challenge of course will be to reproduce all those guitar harmonies (four altogether) and the feeling that went into them. If I do produce another version it's just going to have to be an entirely mew 'cover' of my own song!  John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,725
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,725 |
I see from the post above the tempo and sig have been figured out, all I want to add is that this is a damn good song performed very well!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427 |
Cheers, Danny, much appreciated.
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
I don't think the reverb is a kill here at all.
Strong Performance outweighs those kind of considerations.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 14,576 |
Quote:
I don't think the reverb is a kill here at all.
Strong Performance outweighs those kind of considerations.
--Mac
Oh I agree fully. That was only to be a consideration should he decide he wants to rework the song from scratch. He's got the stuff to do it with now.
As to guitar harmonies. If you have PTW then you have the TCHelicon. It works very well for creating harmonies. Here's the trick to it.
1. Create the song in BIAB
2. Create the main guitar lead in midi format
3. When finished save the song as a midi
4. Open the song in PTW
5. Now play the main guitar lead
6. Open the TCHelicon and select for it to follow the midi tracks
7. Click on OK and make sure it's set up to creat an individual track for each harmony
8. Click on OK again and let 'er rip
9. Now you will have up to 4 tracks of guitar harmony
The other trick is to create everything in as high a bit rate as your card will allow. Once everything is completed you can convert it back to 16/44.1 or whatever you prefer.
By the way, I was shocked to learn that Real Band won't support over 48 bits. If you are in 16/96 like the last song I made the machine locks and starts stuttering badly. I didn't know it had that limitation until I went into the help file to see if I could figger out how to get around the problem. Once I converted it back to 16/48 it ran smooth as silk.
BTW I believe you can run it in 24/48 too. Just not over 48. If anybody doubts me on this just open the help file and look bit rates up. You'll find it's limited to 48 bit. PTW isn't. Just thought y'all'd like to know.
Russ Anyday above ground is a good day Computer is Hp Pavillion Vision 6 Ghz quad core AMD processor 8 Gig memory 1 TB hard drive 6 GB hard drive Windows 7 Premium Loose nut behind the keyboard
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 36
Enthusiast
|
|
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 36 |
John,
very nice song, I too love the guitar work at the end.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,649
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,649 |
24/48 is about as good as you'll get in reality. 24bit/96kHz sounds better in theory (on paper) but really is not a percieved improvement with anybody I have spoken with. Just doubles the file size.
24/44 is fine most times. There is a bigger improvement going from 16 bit to 24 bit than going from the 44kHz to 48kHz or even 96..
Has to do with the size of the chunks of the samples taken during recording.
The bit size determines how long each sample lasts (the size of the chunk over time) and the frequency is how often the samples occur. There is a math formula that says that the frequency cut in half is approximately the reproduced sample frequency range. In other words if you record at 44kHz you can reproduce 22 kHz frequencies (almost) and if you go to 48 kHz you can reproduce 24kHz (not much change there)...and going to 96 means we can theoretically produce up to 48kHz (great for songs you want to play for your dog).
But the bit rate or chunk size adds a lot of depth to the frequency range that IS being reproduced..
Better to use 24 bit with only 44 kHz than to try 16 bit with higher frequencies.
Sonicly speaking anyways..
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,163
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,163 |
Excellent job with this Shuffle beat. One of my fav beats, by the way.
It sounds outstanding as is.
Trax
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,086
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,086 |
"it sounds outstanding as is"
+1
Sundance
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 436
Journeyman
|
|
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 436 |
John;
I really liked it as it is. That is some sweeet guitar work. The solo just took me away, and the ending just lets you down so nice.
If I had songs like that under my belt, I would not be thinking of a re-make. Very good original production values. Great work.
Good luck on where ever you take this. . . .
Gene
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427
Veteran
|
|
OP
Veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427 |
Many thanks Mac, Russ, Tom, Trax, Sundance, Gene. Much appreciated.
Thanks to all for listening and for all the input. I've decided to go back to work on a couple of other originals and get those finished before I go back to this one, which anyway poses a risk of disturbing the 'pixie dust'!
John
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
Holiday Weekend Hours
It's Victoria Day Long Weekend in Canada. Our Customer Service hours are:
Saturday, May 16: Closed
Sunday, May 17: Closed
Monday, May 18: 8:00am - 4:00pm
Regular hours resume Tuesday, May 19th!
Today's the Last Day of the Band-in-a-Box 2026® for Mac Special!
Order before 11:59pm PDT today (May 15, 2026) to save up to 50% off your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrade and receive a FREE Bonus PAK loaded with great new Add-ons to use with this new version!
Don't wait - order today!
Check out all the new features in the redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® today for as little as $49! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all available purchase options.
Learn more about the Free Bonus PAK and 49-PAK here.
If you have any questions about which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We're here to help!
202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,448
Posts805,201
Members40,123
| |
Most Online64,515
Apr 8th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean