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I put in this request before but I thought I would do it again to make sure someone at PG Music sees it, I hope.
The issue is with transposing instrments. Today, I wanted to enter a simple blues pattern. I went to Options>Preferences>Notatiomn amd in tnhe transpose square I selected Tenor Sax.
The C chord on the screen, the one that a new song starts with changed to a D. When I started BiaB and played a D on my Sax it matched the D on the screen and all was well. So now I want gto enter the 4th chord in my progression, a G, but it shows up as an A chord on the screen. So now I see that I cannot write a progression without transposing.
It seems to me that BiaB could do a better job of making this problem easier.
The idea would be to keep transposing the actual pitches, i.e. the true frequency of the notes, seperate from what is displayed on the screen. There should be a frequency transpose option, as well as a display transpose option.
Lets start with me being a piano player and I entered a blues progression C,F,G in a new song window. If I played the song, it would match a regular piano playing C,F, and G. Now, If I selected a "display transpose" of 2 semitones, then the display would show D,G,A. Now if I played D,G,A on my Sax, a Bb insttrument, it would be in tune with the piano playing C,F,G.
Now, if I entered a Em on my screen, it should show Em, and if I played a Em on my Sax, all would be well. If I then changed the "display transpose" back to 0 semitones, the display would show C,F,G,D as expected.
Now, If I wanted to do a frequency or tone transpose, by say 4 semitones, the piano part would show E,A,B,F# and the pitch would change. Now if I went and selected "display transpose" to 2 semitones, the display would now show F#,B,C#,G# and I could then play my Sax to the music.
It seems to me that this wojuld be a relatively easy thing to do and it would certainly make us plauyers with transposing instruments happier. I also play an Alto Sax (Eb instrument) so haveing better transposing and disp;laying options would be great.
Also, as an aside, I have never used the two piano keyboard displays and wonder what their value really is.
I will be looking for a response.
hamilc
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Quote:
There should be a frequency transpose option, as well as a display transpose option.
"Preferences/Arrange -> Concert Pitch Adjust" may just be your ticket ...
Martin
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Martin B.
The concert pitch adjustment will change the pitch but this is not what I think I need. Lets say I have the notes C,D,E in a normal new window. If I do a concert pitch adjust, the pitch will be lowered but the notes will still be C,D, and E. Then I could transpose the song up so that the notes would be D,E, and F, which is what I want. But if I saved the song, it would be in a different key, and then if a piano wanted to play it, they would have to reverse everything. I agree, it can be done, and I have done it, but what happens is that now I have a bunch of songs that I think will play in the proper key, say the real book key, and I find out days later the transpose is wrong, as well as the pitch.
I really think Mr. Gannon could find a good solution if he tried. I think he is a sax player so he probably knows the issjue.
Thanks for the sugestion however.
Hamil
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MartinB,
Let me chat a bit more. I think we all know about the Aebersold CDs. Each song is played and piut on the CD in the proper standard key of the song. In his book, he gives music for all instruments. If the song is in C, then there is a music version in D, and in A. This is what I would like to see in BiaB, a button that will not change the pitch but would change the display. Like I said in the original post, under Options>preferences>notation> you can change the display, but if you want to add another chord, it does not enter correctly. That is if I used the notation option, and wanted to add a G, it would enter as an A, as I recall.
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We have had discussions about this. I also play several instruments in several keys, so if I use the transpose options (and there are several), I am very careful to save the song into a folder made for the appropriate instrument. I try to do all my editing for concert pitch instruments, then transpose and print for the other instruments, and, if I save it, remember to save in the appropriate folder and then change back to concert pitch and save again in the "main" folder. In the Wishlist, I mentioned it would be nice to have a visual indicator that the song has a transposition applied. I recall Peter Gannon saying something about the song being saved with regard to the transposition, and I'll look for that post. EDIT: here it is: http://www.pgmusic.com/ubbthreads/showfl...true#Post227028ps it's spelled "saxophonists"
Last edited by Matt Finley; 07/17/09 06:31 PM.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Matt,
I also havre tried these type of work arounds. The problem is you have one version in a folder that has been edited and different from the version in another folder.
Actually, the option>preferences>notation>transpose almost does the trick. Notice that if you involg a transpose, the chord you enter on the keyboard is not what will be displayed on the screen. Let's say I started a new somng in concert C and transposed to a tenor sax. The display would change to a D, correct. But now I cannot edit the song in the transposed world and if I want to enter a E, it shows up as a F#. Seems like it would be easy to apply the transpose to the keyboard as well. And then to make things easier, put a button on the front window to indicate and allow change to the transposition.
With this fix, the song would stay in the concert key and mixups could be avoided, yes? Let's tell Peter.
BiaB is a totally great program. However, I think it trys to be to much sometimes. I bet if a poll were taken as to what features were actually used, many like the "sound blaster control panel", and "auto name a song" would not be used very often.
Thanks for the spelling correction. I think my keyboard must have been in transpose mode.
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Matt, I just read through the transpose comments from the link you posted. I see that others are having the same problems. I hope that the next version will sort this out, in the proper way. Don't let congress get involved.
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Yes, as indicated in the other thread, Peter may be able to come up with something. If it doesn't make the next version, let's remember to keep it alive in the Wishlist.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Here's what I have done:
*I use the main Keysig block to change the key of the song first, temporarily.
Let's say I'm wanting to end up with a chart that is one step up from Concert, for Bb instrument like Trumpet or Clarinet to keep things simple for now.
I will change a key of Concert C song to key of Concert D and then go ahead and enter the chords in that key as if I'm thinking Bb Instrument.
When all is edited properly and done with that phase of things, I then go ahead and Save (to be safe) and then I change the main Keysig block *back to the original key (Concert C in this case).
Now, I can invoke the Notation Window transpose for whatever instrument and read it from the screen on that instrument.
Just a way of working until such time that we get some better, requested features there, maybe it will help.
--Mac
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Mac, I have in the past done some of the things you have suggeted. Problem is that after wrestling with the program, I lose my musical thought.
Mac, you have been posting for a long time, as I recall. Maybe you have an "in" with Peter and can suggest he make this fix. Basically all he has to do is to
1) move the notation ttranspose dropdown to the main screen so it is more convenient and
2) Make sure that when a notation transpose is in effect, the keyboard inpiuts the correctluy transposed chords.
This way, the song always stays in the same key.
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I have no magic "in" or anything like that. (Even if I did, I would never use it, that's unfair IMO... )
This Wishlist is the place and you've already made your wish known, all we can do is pray.
Over the years I"ve seen *many* wishlist requests come to fruition, though.
--Mac
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And don't forget, Peter Gannon already said he thought he would add the yellow fly-by warning that transpose is in effect, to the PC version. That would be a good start.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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