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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
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I've just installed Biab 2009a and is fantastic as always.
Isn't it a little obsolete the Drum-bass-piano-guitar-strings pattern?
I remember my first Biab with just three MIDI channel and I think that Biab2010 could use all 16 standard MIDI channel.
With the increasing number of realtracks it would be nice having more complex real-styles and is absurd that the pattern names rarely corrispnd to the played instruments.
Sergino
Bandinabox 2024 standard (2020 Audiophile)
VST3 plugins on Studio One Pro 6.1
Windows 11(SSD) - AMD Radeon R9 5950X - 32GB RAM
MOTU: 2408 MkIII - 24i - Traveler - MIDI Express XT
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,976
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,976 |
Yes, way-back-when we decided to name the tracks bass/drums/piano/guitar/strings/melody/soloist ..... instead of 1/2/3/4/5/6/7
So you can assign any instrument to any track, so you could have harpsichord playing on the bass channel. But in general, we never do that, so you can expect that the bass will be on the bass channel etc. I believe it is better to give things a name rather than a generic type number.
More tracks would be a good idea
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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>>>....and I think that Biab2010 could use all 16 standard MIDI channel...>>>
This is where Realband comes in. I can get what I need for practice, a gig or a basic song demo using the 5 parts in BiaB. If I want more, then I open up the song in Realband and add more tracks.
Realband will handle more than 24 tracks and each track can be any instrument you want - live, RTracks or MIDI. Each track can be made to address a different synth or DXI source. (I forget the exact number of tracks allowed...is it 32?)
PGMusic COULD have made BiaB more complicated by adding these capabilities to BiaB. Instead they made the new features into a whole new program. This is a wise choice in my opinion. BiaB is already complex enough.
Last edited by flatfoot; 08/17/09 07:14 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 904
Expert
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Hmmm, if Real Band wouldn`t crash all the time, that is a good idea, but unfortunately,... but I haven`t tested RB 2009.5 yet, maybe it`s more stable.
If we had more channels in BIAB we could do more complex soloing stuff, like trade 4`s in jazz, where the soloists interchange with the drums.
Sandra
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
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Quote:
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>>>....and I think that Biab2010 could use all 16 standard MIDI channel...>>>
This is where Realband comes in. I can get what I need for practice, a gig or a basic song demo using the 5 parts in BiaB. If I want more, then I open up the song in Realband and add more tracks.
This not exact because the BIAB styles are made by PG music (and not by myself) using no more than 7 parts at once.
The old style where made of just 3 instruments. Now is far better. Well, for the future I would like styles with piano and organ playng together with 2 guitars, a bass,a drum and a brass section or a strimg section and so on till 16 instruments together!
Sergino
Bandinabox 2024 standard (2020 Audiophile)
VST3 plugins on Studio One Pro 6.1
Windows 11(SSD) - AMD Radeon R9 5950X - 32GB RAM
MOTU: 2408 MkIII - 24i - Traveler - MIDI Express XT
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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And don't forget that by using the BIAB sequencer feature, you actually do have access to all 16 MIDI channels (just make sure not to over-ride one of the existing BIAB tracks.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
This not exact because the BIAB styles are made by PG music (and not by myself) using no more than 7 parts at once.
The old style where made of just 3 instruments. Now is far better. Well, for the future I would like styles with piano and organ playng together with 2 guitars, a bass,a drum and a brass section or a strimg section and so on till 16 instruments together!
You're still missing it, Sergino. Real Band is a totally different animal than Biab. If all you do is create a song using a Biab style then yes, all you get is the basic 5 parts but RB has 48 tracks to play with. Using RB to create a 5 part Biab song is an example of PG keeping things simple for people who are already familiar with Biab but RB is way more than that.
The true potential that people unfamiliar with RB miss is this:
You can create your song one track at a time using a different Biab style and/or instrument on each track individually. You can start with a basic 5 part Biab song if you want just to hear what each part sounds like with the same style but mixing different styles for different parts of your song is where you really expand the possibilties. In addition, you can use a different style and instrument in different positions on any one track. That means you could have three different rhythm guitars using three different styles in three different sections of the same track. Combine that with 48 available tracks and you can put together any combination of styles and instruments your creative mind can dream up. This all applies to both midi and the Real Tracks and Real Drums. You can try creating 5 different Real Drum tracks and then mixing them by putting one part here and another part there and maybe layering a regular full drum kit track with one of the percussion tracks or one of the Biab created midi drum tracks. If you have a decent sounding midi drum kit you can put together a fantastic drum track this way. This stuff is light years ahead of anything you can do just using Biab alone.
Now add in the fact that RB is also a multitrack audio recorder with a full audio editing suite built in with the ability to use either the included PG effects that are pretty decent right out of the box and/or hundreds of third party effects plugins. For the money, there is nothing like it unless you're going to spend big bucks for Sonar Producer or Cubase and when you include the Biab and Real Track/Drums functions, there's nothing like it at any price.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think Sergino would like to have BIAB do that work instead, so that a one-button Play will generate up to 16 separate parts from a style file.
Orchestral parts
Bigband parts that yield more than the old "Basie" styles
Tower of Power stuff in which all the instruments are present
Marching Band
Latin Musics which include all the instruments
etc
Sounds like a plan to me.
--Mac
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Quote:
Sounds like a plan to me.
+1
Especially the big band comment
Last edited by Lawrie; 08/17/09 10:20 PM.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
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Quote:
You're still missing it, Sergino. Real Band is a totally different animal than Biab.
Bob
Hi Bob,
I use Biab since the Atari's era and I know very well the differences between BIAB and RB.
What I want to say is:
with realband I can make my own style with lots of tracks but I have to know the style.
PG music styles are already done by clever people so that they don't put an overdriven guitar on a Tango.
I need PG styles so to be as closest as possible to the original when I am not so aware of a musical genre.
I'm Italian and I know how to write a Tarantella but I could have some problem with blue-grass!
What I would like would be having this PG "actual" styles with more tracks, and I think that somebody agrees.
Last edited by Sergino; 08/18/09 06:54 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The creators of -> Fritz start out to do just that. they call it -> Ludwig. Worthwhile checking out ...
Martin
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2007
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Apprentice
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Quote:
The creators of -> Fritz start out to do just that. they call it -> Ludwig. Worthwhile checking out ...
Sorry for my poor English but I don't get it.
Could you explain it with some more details, thanks.
Sergino
Bandinabox 2024 standard (2020 Audiophile)
VST3 plugins on Studio One Pro 6.1
Windows 11(SSD) - AMD Radeon R9 5950X - 32GB RAM
MOTU: 2408 MkIII - 24i - Traveler - MIDI Express XT
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Just follow the links and you might get the drift. Unfortunately, the Ludwig site seems to be in German only, though. Now, the creator of the chess program Fritz, which you are likely well acquainted with, happens to be a vivid pastime musician. And likely much as Peter back in the late 80ies, he decided that automatic accompaniments might be a good thing to program. For some reason I am very much under the impression that the people at Chessbase were very much unaware of PG Music. So the guy started out to turn some of the ideas that flew into the world champion chess program Fritz towards composing music. And from the screenshots of Ludwig, you may easily pick up that they have a whole bunch of instruments on the roster - which is just what you asked for. You might want to check out the free version of their program, just to get an idea. Of course, musicianship, coverage of genres, issues such as RealTracks etc. are a whole different story. Currently Ludwig appears to be s.th. like a glorified design study of some interesting things to come. Yet already by now, some multi instrument arrangements (much more instruments than currently supported by PG Music) may be quite useful for practical purposes. Considering the unchallenged position of Fritz in the otherwise highly competitve realm of chess programs, it may be quite interesting to monitor, what Ludwig may come up with next. This -> video gives further insights into the workings of Ludwig. By all means, *some* of Ludwig's features would stand BiaB in good stead ...
Martin
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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OK I've downloaded Ludwig and watched some minutes of the video. My German is even worse than my English. The video is interesting.
I will try the program as soon as I have known all the new features of BIAB 2009a!
Thanks
Last edited by Sergino; 08/18/09 10:29 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Sergino. Look at it this way.....You know those music notation words a lot better than most of us.
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Hi Sergino, I see your point sorry about missing it myself! Still, RB will do some amazing things. Obviously some styles simply won't mix together no matter how "creative" you try to be but others will mix very well together.
What you're asking for could be very nice and certainly the more options the better but, the problem with adding more instruments to a given style is we're asking the authors of the style to come up with more and more complex backing tracks without knowing anything about the melody lines in a given tune. This would be especially true with big band or other large ensembles. There, you have different point/counterpoint lines going on based on what are usually several themes in the piece. To try to come up with a 20 piece brass/woodwind backing arrangement without knowing exactly what those lines are ahead of time would create a useless mishmash of sound imho. Just look at one for example, Chatanooga Choo Choo. The melody/lyric goes "Pardon me boy, is that the Chatanooga Choo Choo?" and the band goes Waa, Waa with the horns. How could that possibly be created by a generic style without knowing the timing of the melody? It would be very cool if we could enter the melody phrasing and somehow a style would create the parts around it. Never say never but I think we're a long ways from that. On the other hand if such a style could be used to simply create a whole new song and we write the melody later, that could be interesting.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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