PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Real Instrument Musicians?

Sorry... and it's not even my thread. As a songwriter I just feel bad about not finding a way, even indirectly, at pointing people toward the useful resources. I don't mean just stopping at mentioning PGMusic... I was hoping for feedback on some of my suggestions.

For which, Harvey, we are all of us extremely grateful. Thank you

By all reckonings, your professional experience in the music business has been more than invaluable as input into the programme and your presence on the forum is much appreciated. You may not post as often as Mac, or some others, but what you do post when you post is very sound advice (no pun intended ).

Quite frankly, I find it amazing to think where PG software has reached - this ain't loops, this is REAL! So a very big 'Thank You' to Peter too. I don't know where I would be without it.

On an aside, I was out with a friend last night who is a singer-songwriter with his own 3 piece band (him on rhythm guitar and vocals, along with an accordionist and a bass player) and he STILL doesn't understand what the PG software can do - he still insists it is merely 'computer generated'. Well, once I have a few new tracks up and running he may well change his mind. To him, a computer is still merely a fancy typewriter - and he's only 53...

WienSam
re your friend of 53.
ive come across that a zillion times mate.
and tons worse.
i dont know why software generates massive emotions in some people.

On a well known music software net forum recently where
i tried to open peoples eyes to the possibilities of the new biab/realband
combo i was attacked left and right by obviously people useing other
software that dont have biab/rb capabilities.
some people commented silly stuff like they would sooner use manuscript paper.
others accused me of working for pg. totally silly comments.
(harvey knows the site well.)
finally the mods locked the thread i suspect because of preassure from
people useing other solutions.
i still havent heard back from the mods why they closed the thread.
whats silly bout the whole thing is ive been saveing up for the
biab/rb combo due to medical issues in my family. i'm just a ptraks user.
i think some people view the software as some sort of threat,
cos it certainly is a breakthru imho.
but some people just dont get it and have in built biases relating
to auto generation. c'est la vie..lol.

I decided to give myself credit for being smart enough to find this software and learn how to use it. So I will definitely list my name on the album credits.

Now to actually create something and quit with the blah, blah, blah.

Manning, you're experience is probably due to what I mentioned last week. When you're on other forums, you're up against the real heavyweight in the music business and that's rap, hip hop and techno. People who are into that stuff are basically on a different planet than any of us here. I'm not questioning the legitimacy of those styles because there is talent there but it's so foreign to us that it's a case of everybody on both sides simply talking past each other. It's exactly the same as our parents coming out of the big band era going into rock and roll. Remember all the acrimony? After winning WWII, it was they who were the "masters of the universe" and their music was "it", no questions. And deservedly so when you think about it. It was 30 years before my mother who was a competition swing dancer in the 40's and 50's finally said the Beatles wrote some good stuff. PG did release some urban Real Tracks and styles but I've never used them and I don't believe I've seen a single comment about them here.

Bob

I don't think it is a generation thing. My 'son' (actually a friend of mine who is only 17 and I am about to turn 50 - never having married or had any kids, I look on him as the son I never had) has absolutely no interest whatsoever in techno, house or hip-hop. He plays e-bass and loves the music of 'our generation'. Only this afternoon he was listening to the Rolling Stones and loves Heavy Metal (AC/DC in particular). He personally cannot see any musicality in the modern 'disco' club music...

I gave him a very quick demo of BIAB by creating in less than 3 minutes a whole new song in a Heavy Metal style and he was very impressed and over the moon! He is also in a band of teenagers who are into Heavy Metal, so he is not the only one

Furthermore, his musical interests include: Jimi Hendrix, The Rolling Stones, Johnny Cash, Elvis Presley, The Rat Pack, The Animals and more. You should see the wide assortment of tracks on his iPod player. Last time we went out to sing together in a karaoke club, he was singing something by Willy Nelson...


Mind you, he can't sing to save his life!

Sam,
I think part of the 'computer generated' music is quite often centered around the usually poor sounds of a GM sound set. So, you could have the most perfect song, and listen to it with a GM sound set, and it'll still sound 'computer generated.'

The one person that really can provide some awesome GM tracks, in my opinion, is Gary Wachtel of GaryW0001@aol.com fame. His ability to turn charts into performances shows the inherent capability of the GM sound set. However, I would LOVE to hear some of his music programmed for the higher banks of a SD2. Without Real Tracks, I still think that your friend may have second thoughts over 'computer generated.'

Get people away from poor samples and poorly written midi files (of which I am guilty of) and they will have a better impression of what 'computer music' can be.

Gary

manning1, that's a good story about your experience on another forum.

I was reading one of those other 'major software' forums and responded to a question, "What do you use for drums?'. Of course, there were pages and pages about drum software, and more than a few responses of 'hire a real drummer', but I was the only one to mention PG Music's Real Drums. I was completely serious, but my comment was met with the typical silence. At least I wasn't run out of town like you were, but having them ignore good info because of preconceived notions is not much better.

Hang in there and keep educating.

matt.
one of the reasons ive been looking at the biab/rb combo is ..
to follow up on your comment re drum software..
such drum software alone can cost several hundred dollars.
and all one gets is drums.
so my thinking was , if i'm gonna spend THAT MUCH it seems to me
that biab/rb is a better value cos not only is one getting drum realtraks
but lots of other real instruments as well.
yes ive followed on various forums where people are spending oodles on just drum
software. it doesnt make sense to me when biab/rb offer more instruments.
and daw software n auto accompany n lots of other features thrown in to boot.

frankly i feel some of the opposition to this type of software might be coming
from people who feel certain sections of their livelihood under threat.
but i feel its unstoppable imho.
technology will continue to impact the status quo hugely.
i personally view the realtraks feature as just the start of something very big.
with more powerfull computers on the horizon i foresee a day when
one can incorporate any real instrument one wants in a song or orchestral
instrument. ie in a very dynamic fashion .
gonna be an exciting 10 yrs imho.

on a side note i really wish pg would advertise more n get the word
out more to musicians on what one can do with this software.
cos some people just dont comprehend its power n versatility.

One more thing that hasn't been mentioned is that since the playing of the Real Track players is at such a high level, they may not want their name mentioned with anyone at a lower level. Just a thought. Later, Ray

A very valid point, Ray.
Let's just be grateful that PG Music has given us the opportunity to "play" with some of the best musos around, and enjoy!!

But if the RT players didn't want to be associated with us in any public way, why did they allow their names to be linked to their work, along with a capsule bio, in the RT window? I haven't looked, but has Peter put into the license we purchased a restriction on the citation of these players in any liner notes? If not, there is no legal restriction in listing their names.

Harvey talked about song demos to Nashville and his advice is valid whether musicians record in his studio or we use the RTs. But if I want to release a new album (that sells peanuts on CDBaby and iTunes) and I list the names of the RT players in the credits, I don't see any any restriction on doing that, assuming it is not in the license I bought. (I have a law degree, so bear with me!) If I list the players as "Jim Jones, bass guitar, Tom Wheeler, electric guitar, and Ginny White fiddle, courtesy of PG Music," what is wrong with that?

Finally, who looks at credits anymore in a downloadable, iTunes world?

Just asking some questions.

As I've said before in this thread, you can do whatever you want to do. If you want to list names, do it. I wouldn't do it on my work, for several reasons. Most which have already been covered in this thread, if not by me, by someone.

But nobody is trying to prevent anyone from doing it, at least, not on this thread that I'm aware of.


--Mac

Here's an interesting scenario.
You record an album using Real Tracks, acknowledge the musicians that helped create the Real tracks, and release the album.
Someone compliments the Real Tracks musician on the work he did on "Bill Smith's" album.
He replies "I've no idea what you're talking about...... I do not know "Bill Smith" and I certainly did NOT work on his album."

Just a chuckle!

My 2 cents . . . we all agree that PG Music puts out a wonderful product that is getting better day by day with the help of their great session musicians, and as a loyal customer and fan I am grateful for both. But unlike a karaoke track or a cd with the vocal removed those of us who are using the product either performing live or doing demo tracks do the rest which includes the arranging and producing of the final product.

I am fortunate enough to play anywhere from 65 – 85 gigs in a given year so from time to time I get the occasional question, (mostly from other musicians in the audience) “what are you using for backing tracks”? I show them the computer screen and tell them it is a wonderful composing and arranging piece of software from PG Music, give them the website and just as importantly the forum information along with my endorsement and thank them for asking. However (no knock on the karaoke or other DJs of any sort) but there are just as many people ask if I am using a karaoke program, my answer is “not even close.” If they persist I show them the program by bringing up a blank/new screen/chart in BIAB and explain that while BIAB has some wonderful tools this is the start, it is not a finished product i.e. a karaoke program already fine tuned (wherever they do that) or a CD done by a wonderful orchestra for Dino, Frank, Satchmo or Nat and all I did was remove their vocals. If they still persist, I ask them if they are in show business? They say no, and then I tell them to get their ass off of my stage rim shot!

Acknowledgement: For fellow musician inquiries I talk about the software and session musicians, as they know the bottom-line is while PG Music provided the wonderful tools someone still has to put produce, arrange and play the show. Are there audience members who can do the same show I am doing with BIAB, yes the aforementioned musicians, but a resounding NO to the civilians who asked if this is a karaoke program.

Bottom-line . . . even when I am touting BIAB and the session musicians to fellow musicians I don’t use their names. Not out of any disrespect but the blunt answer is they don’t care who they are, they just care if they can play man. (and that they can)

Later,