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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
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Problem happens like this.
1. Water Main breaks and starts to wash away under the street, moving gravel and sand.
2. Water pressure drops and Fire is dispatched as sprinker systems go in to low water levels and set off alarms.
3. If the hole is full of water, and there is water on the street, there is no way to tell how deep it is, as the driver (Engineer), you just assume there is a street under the water no some great hole.
We had a series of really bad thunderstorms one summer and it took me an hour to go what should take 10 minutes due to the storm sewers backing up and flooding the streets. I got s*** for being too careful, but, I didn't want to strand the truck in 4 feet of water. Ended up driving out in the country and back in a circle.
We have underground steam for heating and airconditioning in the downtown core. Looks like Gotham City at times. A water main breaks and the water cuts the insulation off the superheated steam pipe and of course 1 cu ft of H20 = 1200 cu ft of steam so that gets trapped under the street and finds conduits into buildings. Since I've retired I have helped a restoration company 3 times with big projects where we needed generators to run buildings for day while things get fixed. Bad infrastructure everywhere man, 80 year old watermains with lead joints....hmm.....
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Joined: May 2000
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Quote:
I got s*** for being too careful, but, I didn't want to strand the truck in 4 feet of water. Ended up driving out in the country and back in a circle....
See, there is indeed a way to prevent what happened. Matter of fact, looks to me like there may have been enough room right on that street to perhaps drive around the perimeter. I, too, have avoided such pitfalls when driving the big LaFrance.
But we have a generation that is not up to expecting the unexpected, it seems, or perhaps I'm just curmudgeoning.
I know this much: If I had done it, my you-know-what would have been in the proverbial sling for certain. As it should be IMO.
--Mac
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Posts: 7,697 |
I heard on the radio just a few hours ago that the driver felt the road moving, put the truck in reverse and was trying to back out when it collapsed right underneath him. If he hadn't already been backing away, it probably would have swallowed the whole thing. Don't know what else he could have done.
The Station Fire that as of today is only 60% contained and is the largest fire in Calif history, 160,000 acres, was deliberately set. They found the ignition point a few days ago and it's now a homicide investigation because a Fire Captain and one of his men were killed when their truck went off a mountain road escaping the fire and tumbled over 800 feet down a ravine. Most of the biggest, most expensive fires of the last few years were set. They caught one guy a year or two ago, convicted him of murder or manslaughter because people were killed and he's put away. It's really unbelievable that you can have all the fire prevention neighborhood meetings in the world, do it all right and some low life just pulls off a deserted mountain road for a minute and starts it.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 193
Apprentice
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Apprentice
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 193 |
It is not always easy doing what you think is the right thing in an emergency. Especially when you are expected to save lives and property in a hurry without knowing all of the circumstances involved.
As a near 30 year veteran of the professional fire service, I have seen too many close calls to count of responding units. My heart sinks when I find out that the call was not accidental but intentionally invoked by someone whom I cannot describe in a public forum. I do hope that they get the help needed before they make a decision that may cost someone their life or property.
It wasn't too long ago that I sent a rapid intervention vehicle out to determine the intensity of flooding on the runways at our local airport. The firefighter didn't realize until it was too late that the water was too deep to traverse and ended up flooding the engine with water and thus putting the vehicle out of service and requiring an engine rebuild. Luckily there were other units still available in the area to respond to emergencies if needed.
Thanks to all public safety personnel who give their all especially in these times of unforeseen danger.
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That's disgusting.
They should find the arsonist(s), have the trial and then the judge should award the punishment to an ad hoc group of firefighters...
--Mac
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,646 |
You firefighters do us a great service. From this you can see the danger is not always fire. Listen To My MusicRead My Blog
My TunesPsalm 57:7 My heart, O God, is steadfast, my heart is steadfast; I will sing and make music.
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Joined: Sep 2003
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It is often difficult to lay blame in emergencies. I understand the rules pertaining to returning to station after. I was driving an engine in a busy station and we got a call at 8 a.m. for a fire in a house 8 blocks away. We had one major intersection and the cars froze in place. I needed to turn right, but no room. We got 2 cars out of the way, I went over the curb, the sidewalk, and through a gas station. Dispatch said 3 people were trapped in the front bedroom, 2 children and a disabled woman who was stuck in the bedroom. She had a wheelchair outside the closed bedroom door. The kids had a misfortune with the stove, they were 7 and 9. All 3 were talking to dispatch as we cleared traffic and got there 1 minute later. We smashed the bedroom window with a ladder, got in and got them out. No fire in that room at all. All 3 were vital signs absent and dead. After that I drove lots faster for a long time. It gets into your head. Sometimes what you think is a false alarm turns nasty. Sometimes you get to a scene where someone says "my babies are trapped'. Turns out to be cats. Almost all my firefighter friends and I hated cats. People treat them like humans and yell at you when you decide not to get inside some 100 year old house with who knows how many false ceilings and walls. In 32 years I had one accident. Knocked down a 6 foot piece of fence, did no damage to the vehicle, and got a day off. That chief was 100 percent no behind the guys he said. Right. (Well now it's gals too.)
Crazy job, 90 percent boredom and 10 percent total mayhem. "Stay with the truck and the deck gun on the gas leak John, we are moving a 1/2 block away in case," says the Captain. Good feeling that. 20 below and climbing a ladder on a slate roof to ventilate. Falling through stairs into the burning basement. Gee I only did that 3 times.
On the other hand I learned a lot of cooking and bbq stuff. For the 1st 5 years do the dishes. Next you get to peel potatoes. Then you graduate to turning on the stove. Now the stoves are tied to the alarm system and the entire kitchen shuts down. Too many burned steaks, soups LOL. Now I see firefighters in the grocery store (they work 24 hour shifts), and I don't know most of them. The ones who know me say "Hi Chief", and start to tell some story to the rookie. Probably about me being sent to work at the country station with 60 runs a year and making a race course for the riding mower and getting caught with a patio table, stopwatch, lemonade and the bbq going, wearing a Hawaiian shirt, baseball cap, and sunglasses after disabling the speed control on the thing and the guys ran it in and out of the corn field. Another day off..LOL. We were a lot like watching M.A.S.H. Really really crazy.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151
Expert
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Expert
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 1,151 |
Yes, there would be questions. But as others have pointed out, it may have been unavoidable. Not going to be an armchair quarterback, but maybe forming a perimeter to creat a safe zone would have been in order, rather than driving right up to the break. None of us really knows, we weren't there. Here in Honolulu, we have a VARC (vehicle accident review commitee) that reviews every accident, no matter how big or small, and determines whether or not it was avoidable. During my 28 years I cannot recall a single one being unavoidable. I was on the withering end of the VARC myself when I was an engineer, and guess what - my accident was avoidable. Go figure.
Bottom line, all the rules and regs are designed to maximize SAFETY. Leading cause of firefighter deaths is a lack of SOP's. That's why the ICS was created. All it takes is one captain who lets his emotions take over and rushes his crew into a burning or collapsing structure without backup and you've got the potential for dead firefighters.
Personally, I enjoyed the BBQ part of my job much more.
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