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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196
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I just installed Snow Leopard on my Mac, then ran BIAB 2009.5 with the software synth, Native Instruments' Bandstand. Bandstand crashes unexpectedly and repeatedly under Snow Leopard. I went to NI's web site, and it turns out that Bandstand has been discontinued, there will be no updates, and it’s likely to run only with the systems it was designed for -- not Snow Leopard. More info (posted way back in Feb. 09) is available on NI's web site here: http://www.native-instruments.com/forum/showthread.php?t=92747.What's my problem? Well, I own at least half a dozen hardware synths, but for times when all I'm packing is my laptop, I'd really like a decent GM software synth -- something at least as good as Forte, which is available only for Windows BIAB. Bandstand sounded good for the most part, and it was easy to use with BIAB and OS X. I don't see anything out there, that runs on Mac, that really replaces it. Of course I don't blame PG. But if I can't get decent sounds off Mac BIAB's 2009.5's midi tracks without a hardware synth, for me this is a game-changer -- I may find myself going back to the Windows version of BIAB. Anybody have any suggestions for getting decent-sounding midi tracks with BIAB 2009.5, via software, under Snow Leopard?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116
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Apprentice
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Posts: 116 |
Just curious... does bandstand crash when you launch it by itself, without BIAB running? I've been experiencing some crashing too, but it seems to have stabilized a bit. Also, check your MIDI settings in BIAB. Make sure you have BIAB on CORE audio, then all of your ports to BIAB virtual output.
At this point I'm still using Bandstand for bass sounds. Real tracks take so long to load that it speeds things up to just get the bass from bandstand via midi. Sound is decent.
Good luck!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196 |
Quote:
Just curious... does bandstand crash when you launch it by itself, without BIAB running? I've been experiencing some crashing too, but it seems to have stabilized a bit. Also, check your MIDI settings in BIAB. Make sure you have BIAB on CORE audio, then all of your ports to BIAB virtual output.
At this point I'm still using Bandstand for bass sounds. Real tracks take so long to load that it speeds things up to just get the bass from bandstand via midi. Sound is decent.
Good luck!
Bandstand does crash by itself -- not all the time -- and I haven't been able to do anything I can replicate to say, yes, if I do this, Bandstand will crash. In testing Bandstand alone, I find sometimes it crashes when I first boot it, sometimes it doesn't; when it does, sometimes it will boot just fine on my second attempt. Sometimes it crashes when I select one of its instrument sets; sometimes it doesn't. With respect to using it with BIAB, I'm using CORE audio and setting my ports to BIAB's virtual output, per the instructions that were posted (maybe they're still up there) on PG's web site.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Shoot. That doesn't help much. However, since your post, I have been checking out native instruments' new Kore player. It looks and behaves a lot like bandstand. You can get a free version of the player by visiting the native instruments site. Looks like that is where bandstand went. Let me know if you're able to get it working with BIAB!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196 |
Quote:
Shoot. That doesn't help much. However, since your post, I have been checking out native instruments' new Kore player. It looks and behaves a lot like bandstand. You can get a free version of the player by visiting the native instruments site. Looks like that is where bandstand went. Let me know if you're able to get it working with BIAB!
I'll check out Kore player. But your suggestion leads me to another question -- or really, a bunch of them -- in search of a soft synth for Mac BIAB 2009.5.
Does anybody know:
1. Can Garritan Personal Orchestra or Garritan Jazz and Big Band be used with Mac BIAB 2009.5 with the old NI Kontakt 2 engine Garritan supplied? (I use it with Mac Logic Pro as an audio units plug-in; works fine. Never tried to figure it out with Mac BIAB, and I can find no information on PG's web site about how to use Mac BIAB and GPO, though there's a page of info on using GPO with Windows BIAB at http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_garritan.htm#bandinabox).
2. Can GPO or GJBB work with Mac BIAB 2009.5 via the new ARIA player Garritan is now providing with GPO (and will apparently provide for Jazz and Big Band soon). If not, is there any way to get GPO and Mac BIAB talking to each other?
And finally, how would installing the latest Mac OS X upgrade, Snow Leopard, affect the answers to any of the above?
I do see a somewhat helpful page on PG's web site at http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_bbm_nosound.htm, that discusses how Mac BIAB can communicate with third-party programs via the IAC Bus built into OS X, or the BIAB virtual ports. But it's not very specific. Anybody know more about what works and what doesn't with Mac BIAB?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: May 2006
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I use Mac Logic Pro as my soft synth interface to BIAB. Consequently, I can assign any soft instrument to any track. I believe that any AU instrument that Logic recognizes can be used in this manner. Using the instructions provided in the tutorial you mentioned above should work for you. They did for me.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Oct 2008
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I haven't had crash with Bandstand 1.0.2.006 (maybe because I run i through my Saffire LE?), in fact it runs better/faster in snow leopard than in Leopard.
My problem is I can't get BIAB to render miditracks using Bandstands sounds. I think it only works with QT instruments?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
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Posts: 196 |
Quote:
I use Mac Logic Pro as my soft synth interface to BIAB. Consequently, I can assign any soft instrument to any track. I believe that any AU instrument that Logic recognizes can be used in this manner. Using the instructions provided in the tutorial you mentioned above should work for you. They did for me.
I've been able to get BIAB to use a Core MIDI IAC Bus (or the BIAB Virtual Output) to play BIAB through Bandstand (despite the crashing issue with Snow Leopard). And I just upgraded Garritan Personal Orchestra to version 4 with the Aria player, and it looks like BIAB will work over an IAC Bus with Aria just fine. So I can use Bandstand as my software synth (putting up with crashes, or uninstalling Snow Leopard.) Or I can use GPO/Aria -- not very convenient, since BIAB won't send program changes to GPO/Aria (unless I'm missing something), so every time I try a new BIAB style I've got to manually change GPO patches to load new instruments.
But you say you're using Logic as a software synth, assigning a variety of AU software instruments to individual Logic tracks. Could you elaborate? I've poured over PG's sketchy instructions (http://www.pgmusic.com/tutorial_bbm_nosound.htm, section on INTER-APPLICATION COMMUNICATION) but I haven't gotten that to work. I use Logic all the time with a variety of AU software instruments (Apple's, Bandstand, Garritan's and others) to play back MIDI files I've created in BIAB and imported into Logic. But I haven't been able to use Logic as a "live" playback engine for BIAB in real time -- to tell Logic over IAC to play BIAB's six or seven tracks simultaneously through separate Logic tracks assigned to different AU instrument sounds. Is that what you've got going? What am I missing here?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Well, that is indeed what I have going.
It sounds like you already have the IAC driver working.
In logic all I do is add the number of tracks that I need for a given song and set the midi channel to match what I have in BIAB. Make sure you enable the logic tracks to record. Then I choose the appropriate softsynth or patch.
I haven't tried anything as sophisticated as program changes. When I arrive at the ensemble that I like I save the Logic project with a name like "BIAB - Desafinado".
Good luck!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 404
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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Quote:
In logic all I do is add the number of tracks that I need for a given song and set the midi channel to match what I have in BIAB. Make sure you enable the logic tracks to record..
One more thing:
Go to File>Project Settings>Recording and make sure that 'Auto demix by channel..' is checked!
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Thanks, Fred. I knew there was another step, but I couldn't remember what it was. It is necessary because Logic, by default, sums all midi input into 1 channel.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 196
Apprentice
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OP
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Quote:
Quote:
In logic all I do is add the number of tracks that I need for a given song and set the midi channel to match what I have in BIAB. Make sure you enable the logic tracks to record..
One more thing:
Go to File>Project Settings>Recording and make sure that 'Auto demix by channel..' is checked!
Yes -- the "auto demix" setting was the piece I was missing. Thanks, Fred.
The funny thing is, now that I've got Logic working as a (sort-of) software synth for BIAB, I'm not at all sure that I want to. Sure, it's a option, but one that's probably only useful (for me anyway) once I've got a song figured out, have auditioned a bunch of styles, and know which BIAB style and collection of instruments I want to use. To set up seven or eight separate tracks in Logic (or any other program) to correspond to instruments in a BIAB style, then manually change them one track at a time if I want to try another style, is labor intensive -- and I might want to try dozens of BIAB styles before going with one (or a combination thereof).
I suppose I'll have to rely on the more accessible, built-in Apple DLS sounds, or hook up a hardware synth, if I want to audition BIAB styles in the Mac version. I've found in the past, though, that some of the built-in Apple sounds are so tinny that often you can't get a realistic idea of what a BIAB style really sounds like -- I'll occasionally reject a style out of hand, only to decide that, hey, that might work, once I've connected a decent hardware or software synth. I sure wish there was a MIDI software synth for Mac that really worked with BIAB... but as we move away from MIDI to real tracks, I guess I'm one of the few who feels that way...
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2004
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Journeyman
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I agree that Logic as soft synth is not a general solution. But for me it works well as I'm using only a limited set of styles (jazz/fusion). So I've loaded Logic with my favorite 16 instruments on different channels. And to change for example the melody/soloist instrument, I simply change the MIDI output channel in BIAB's MIDI Settings to the corresponding instrument channel in Logic. So I don't need to touch Logic at all and can even hide it from the screen like an invisible sound module.
For the future, with 64-bit computers addressing more than 4 GB of RAM it should be possible to build general purpose high-end GM soft synths. NI's Kore 2 seems a suitable tool for this.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116
Apprentice
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I just wanted to mention to the original poster, than bandstand has been crashing pretty regularly for me UNLESS I click it, then wait for it to launch. if I click it to launch, then switch to anything while it loads... it crashes. Bummer. I wonder how much longer this program will work. In the meanwhile, I've been playing around with the Kore player. I can't figure out to make it play more than one track at once, but so far it seems to have potential.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Feb 2002
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Expert
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The free Kore 2 Player only plays on one channel. The Kore 2 Software Edition is multitimbral. It costs $199. Too bad that NI doesn't convert Bandstand to a Kore Pack so we could buy it again.....
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 17
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I'm using SampleTank 2.5 XL. It runs via the IAC driver (and can work with Windows as a DXi). It's not specifically a GM instrument, but it's easy to create and load a patch with any combination of instruments you want. It's a good option if 1) It's not out of your price range (good to buy it when IK Multimedia has a promotion going on), and 2) you have use for a high-quality sample player (not a full-featured sampler like Kontakt). It comes with a large range of good, usable sounds, and it's very easy to use. It integrates well with BIAB because it's got a kind of keyboard-workstation-paradigm: it's got your 16 slots, and you load a different sound into each one. Each slot responds to a different MIDI channel. You don't have to configure it that way, or open 16 instances of it to do this, that's just its basic setup. Very simple and convenient. There's also a lighter, less-expensive version, but I don't know what the limitations are. I think it might be a little expensive (or maybe not, depending on how you feel about it) to buy just to use with BIAB, but if it's something you would have a use or need for anyway, it integrates very smoothly with BIAB. Also, if you do need a full-featured sampler, you can probably open Bandstand instruments in Kontakt, correct?
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 116
Apprentice
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Apprentice
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Oh man, I just picked up a copy of Logic Express 8 and have been using it with BIAB... goodbye bandstand!
It really works well with BIAB. I've been using realdrums with logic bass and acoustic guitar... heaven.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Newbie
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Newbie
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Thanks for this thread. I discovered the same problem with BandStand and BIAB on Snow Leopard, and now I'm glad that NI gave me a kick in the butt to learn something new.
Luckily, I recently acquired the latest Kontakt and Battery with an upgrade to NI Komplete 6. Battery has a nice GM drum kit, and a template that makes it easy to create your own. Kontakt can read the BandStand Library if you really prefer it, but the new Kontackt and Battery libraries are better quality.
I think you can get Kontackt Player for free, and do most of what is needed; I suppose it too will read the BandStand library.
The combination of RealTracks, RealDrums, RealSoloist, and then Kontackt and Battery for the vast library of midi that is not covered yet, is hard to believe. So soon old, and so late smart... I can barely contain myself.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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BTW, of course Kontakt is not a GM synth, but setting up a few instruments into a multi for any particular style in BIAB is not any more difficult than using BandStand. In fact, I find it easier, and more powerful. Once you have a multi for each of your favorite styles, you can be really productive.
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Band-in-a-Box for Macintosh
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 12
Newbie
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Newbie
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Hi - I just noticed your post re: BIAB, Bandstand and Logic - I'm working with Bandstand right now and have Logic Pro as well. Would you be so kind as to share your logic template for BIAB?
Thanks,
Shaun
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