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Hello,
I have BIAB 2006. I never really got to work with it at the time because the old Yamaha keyboard I had had a busted MIDI interface. So now I am just looking to learn the ins and outs of BIAB. I have a $100 to $125 budget for a MIDI keyboard controller. I was looking on Amazon and found a few M-AUDIO products in this range (like Oxygen, Keyrig, and other 25-key controllers).
I would like to use this on my Vista laptop, but I do have access to an XP workstation as well. Again, nothing fancy, I just want to learn how to use BIAB with the simplest keyboard interface possible (and not the computer keyboard).
The Dell laptop has 2GB of RAM and runs Vista Ultimate. But again, if there's trouble with that, I do have an old standby XP desktop.
I've read on here of troubles with M-AUDIO drivers not working so hot with BIAB. Again, I'm still on BIAB 2006. Any help would be really cool...
Thanks!
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While this auction will end before you see it, something like this might be a good solution for you. http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-Keyboard-PSR-...=item3a560b378aFind a newer used keyboard that has better sounds on it, because you might be able to use the built in sounds over what sounds you'll get out of BIAB and the Roland VSC, or whatever else you may be using. Other examples: http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-PSR-E223-61-K...=item35a5c71af8http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-YAMAHA-electron...=item53decbc75chttp://cgi.ebay.com/Barely-used-Yamaha-P...=item2c525b41abIf you can find a way to afford this, you'll be really pleased. http://cgi.ebay.com/Yamaha-PSR-S500-61-K...=item439c427a08Finally, you can download the manuals for any of those keyboards here: http://www.yamaha.co.jp/manual/english/index.phpThat will give you an indication of whether or not they will work for you. You might also look at Korg: http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-N264-76-Key-Key...=item3efb6a69c2This uses the AI2 synthesis method, but still sounds good. The X5 will do nicely for you, too, and is smaller. http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-X-5-X5-61-Key-S...=item35a5e03e18This is the reason I own Korg arrangers. The i3 started it all for me, and was leaps and bounds above everything else out there at the time. It still is a seriously cool piece of gear. http://cgi.ebay.com/Korg-I3-I-3-Vintage-...=item53debba456Or, you can also look at some of the Roland, Casio and other keyboards. Lots of capability out there for less than $200, if you don't mind used. Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I have an axiom I would thoroughly recommend it. Try it with the 40 demo of TruePianos - very good. The feel of the keys (semiweighted) is very responsive. I have A Nord and a KeyB but prefer this. No on board sounds though, but IMO you are better of with software - some of the new soft synths are dazzling omnisphere, absynth.. These could be added when budget allows and are updatable whereas onboard sounds are often not. There are some good free synths to on KVR (crystal).
Sorry to disagree but I would stay away from anything Yamaha after having a few PSR's Unless you go for high end most on board sounds of retro keyboards are naff IMO. A sound needs to evolve according to velocity and the older keyboards did not do this (well the ones I know).
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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I've been running an M-Audio AP2496 soundcard under XP for years now and have had no real unsolvable issues with any of the PGMusic products.
I've also been running an M-Audio Keystation Pro 88 MIDI controller keyboard and can report the same about it.
Have had an Oxygen portable that runs on the XP laptop just fine with BiaB all these years.
Don't know what you mean when you refer to lots of problems, we've had a few users who needed to get settings or drivers straight, I think almost all of them solved their problem.
There will always be a case or two where someone can't solve a problem with *any* brand or model device, we have to learn to look at trends and know how to analyze them before jumping to rash conclusions.
--Mac
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Quote:
I have an axiom I would thoroughly recommend it.
Which model of the Axiom do you have?
Thanks!
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Gary,
Thank you for taking the time to post all of those links. Looks like there are some good deals to be had on used MIDI controllers. The only thing is, I've had nothing but bad lack buying musical items -- instruments in particular -- from eBay.
I really would like some thoughts from folks who have experience with some of the low-end controllers to be found on Amazon for under $150, such as the M-Audio products, Behringer, et al. Wish I could go higher end, but $150 is it for right now.
Thanks, everyone!
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Those M-Audio Oxygens can take a pounding and keep on ticking.
I know a fellow who knocked one completely off of a keyboard stand on a gig, it slammed onto the floor, he picked it back up and continued to play on it.
Mine has traveled extensively with me, BiaB and my laptop. I've never knocked it from stand to floor, but it surely is a testamonial to ruggedness given only reasonable care. It travels in my suticase, wrapped in pieces of clothing, usually. Everything on that little thing still works.
--Mac
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I have the cheaper type a 61 note. I might mention that the faders a a little 'approximate' sometimes, but I am talking of the sensitivity of the keyboard combines with a decent piano. I would recommend it for studio but it is perhaps not rugged enough for banging about on gigs as durable as a PSR from Yamaha, I would say.
Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k
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Guys,
I'm a little stuck on nomenclature here. Aside from the Keystation having 49 keys and the Oxygen 8 only having 25, why is the Oxygen 8 referred to as a "MIDI Controller" and the Keystation is not? It looks to me like they both do the same thing. Aside from the number of keys, what is the difference between these two:
M-Audio Oxygen 49 Keystation
M-Audio OXYGEN 8 V2 25-Key USB MIDI Controller 9900-41392-00 by M-Audio
Thanks!
Greg
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Greg, The reason for that is in what the keyboard can do. They Keystation is a simple keyboard interface. It allows you to play a melody or a song and is used as an input device to your sequencer or DAW, or Band in a Box in this case. The Oxygen isn't really designed as an input device. Yes, you can use it as such, but it would be more for step entry, triggering a sampler, or simple editing. What it's PRIMARY purpose is for is to control a DAW, such as Pro Tools, in a mixing environment. In fact, if you read the literature for the Oxygen, it doesn't even mention the keyboard application until the end of the paragraph. It is more about the assignable controllers, sliders, knobs and how that works inside of whatever DAW (Digital Audio Workstation, if you didn't know) you're using. In your case, I would look at this: http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=703607VThis is a M-Audio 88es USB, at the very high end of your price range. It is a Factory Restock, which sometimes is called 'B-Stock.' What that means is that the factory sold it to someone, it was returned unopened because the company went out of business, or something like that. M-Audio can't sell it as new, so they look at it, make sure it works, and then sell it at a seriously reduced price marked as Factory Restock. It should have a Factory Warranty with it. However, you might have a wait 20 days to get it, but for that, at that price, it's worth it. This is a Behringer 61 key device that also will suit your needs. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.co...oard?sku=702541This is new and in stock. People diss Behringer for being a rip off of everybody else, but I've always had good luck with their product. Here is an Oxygen 49 for a not bad price. Forty nine keys will let you play, and it has control knobs and such. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product/MAudio-Oxygen493rdGen?sku=423008Finally, here is what I consider to be the best buy out there. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.com/product?sku=709204VThis is the M-Audio 61es Factory Restock. This should give you everything you're looking for. Again, I'm still going to bring up a keyboard with sounds, because of course, none of the keyboards listed above have sounds in them, and depending on what kind of software synthesizer you're using in your laptop will depend on how happy you are with the whole deal. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.co...oard?sku=580591That's $159, and ships free. You'll need a USB to MIDI adapter to plug it into your laptop. It's also possible to buy a used unit, a little better keyboard, from Musician's Friend. No warranty, but covered by their 45 day satisfaction guarantee. http://keyboards-midi.musiciansfriend.co...sku=439620#used I wanted to give you this link to Yamaha's website for the YPT410. http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/Cont...amp;CTID=205100At the top right, there is a tab for 'Audio' and you can listen to the audio of what this keyboard can do. There are two, one of which is available for $159. Anyway, lots more to think about, Greg. By the way, please let us know what kind of software synth you're going to be using. Gary
Last edited by Gary Curran; 12/26/09 01:21 PM.
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Gary,
BIG thanks for your post!
How much more dough am I looking at for a software synth?
I'm an absolute beginner on this stuff. I have BIAB 2006 right now and I just want something simple and cheap to learn on. If I get the hang of it and really in the groove, I can upgrade later. I am looking for an entry-level way of composing/sequencing music with BIAB. I'd like to learn how to program drum parts and all the rest. I can't afford Pro Tools or any of that other fancy stuff at the moment...
Would the M-Audio Oxygen 49 - USB MIDI Controller suit my purpose for the time being? That's only $99 on Amazon.
Thanks again for all your help!
Greg
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I use a M-Audio Keystation 88 as a MIDI controller and it works just fine for the price -$199.
There are a ton of free soft synths out there that vary in quality and features but is a good place to start. Also there are free soft synth hosts which are needed to trigger the soft synths.
I have Sonar 8.5 that comes with a pile of nice soft synths and I have bought several nice soft synths that I use in Sonar. They sound great but a lot of the time I'll just fire up Savihost (free) and a free soft synth if I just want to dabble.
And don't forget it works in BIAB too.
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Does BIAB 2006 come with any software synths?
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2006 came with the Edirol VSC3 synth, but it was a separate install on the disk from BiaB proper. Many may have missed it in their haste. Check the disk using Explorer and see what's on it.
--Mac
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I can't get the VSC3 synth to work under vista, but I'll worry about that on another day.
Thanks for the direction and guidance, mis amigos! Happy New Year to all!
Greg
Last edited by KeyedUp; 12/26/09 07:55 PM.
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Greg,
If you are running a 64 bit version of any OS, then the Roland VSC is not going to work.
Windows comes with the Microsoft GS Wavetable Software Synth, which basically is a licensed version of the Roland VSC, but it does not work well if you wish to play along with it, because of something called 'Latency.'
You can, for about $40, purchase the Coyote Forte DXi synth, you'll get a demo version usually with the latest Band In A Box versions.
This was one of the main reasons that I said get one of those Yamaha keyboards, it has the sounds in it, they'll be better than most anything else you can get, and they're portable. As portable as a 25 key Oxygen? No, of course not, but then you'll need to get some kind of sound generator.
If you're going to take your laptop with you, then get something small. If you're going to build a small studio around your laptop, and not take it anywhere, get that Yamaha YPT-410 that was used.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Gary,
I guess I should better state my needs.
I am not a professional musician. I am a piano and guitar player, and I play for my own enjoyment. This will not be a mobile set up. If Vista is a problem that will end up costing me more money, I have an XP Home workstation I can use instead.
My main goal here is to learn the ins and outs of MIDI, and to work on my composition ambitions. I'm on a budget -- times are tough. I've got $140 worth of Amazon gift certificates. This is why I was looking at the M-Audio offerings. I'm still confused at the difference between the KeyRig and the Oxygen and Axiom lines. I'm looking for a FAQ or tutorial that will help me differentiate the options.
I anticipate I can upgrade to something better in a few months. But for now, I'm looking for a starter set to go with my XP workstation and BIAB 2006. The XP setup sounds like the path with the least resistance. I want to make good sounds, but it doesn't have to be top notch at this point. Just enough to get me up the learning curve. I want to learn BIAB and MIDI, and I want a keyboard controller for under $150 that will help me to achieve my goals.
What do you think?
Thanks!
Greg
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Greg, And the light dawns! Okay. Vista is not a problem. I do understand the financial, but I didn't know you had the Amazon gift cards. That helps somewhat. As you know, Band In A Box creates up to a five part backing track. It uses some kind of a synthesizer to create those sounds. A synth can be either hardware, or software. Your Microsoft computers come with a built in software synth. This is the Microsoft GM Wavetable Software Synth or whatever they're calling it now. This is a slightly watered down version of the Roland VSC. In your BIAB 2006 disk, there should be a Roland VSC and VSC DXi directory, or .exe files. We can use those, but we have to use the DXi version. I think. I'm trying to remember if 2006 has the DXi version or not. If not, then we're going to have to find something else. The Oxygen, Axiom and KeyRig keyboards all have controllers on them. These are configurable to send different types of data. So, if you were looking to emulate an old type of synth, with the knobs and buttons and stuff you would press, twist and twiddle in real time, these keyboards would be great for that. The KeyRig even gives you a couple of synths that you can do that with. But, we run into some problems. Band In A Box is PRIMARILY designed to work with General MIDI synths. Of the four software synths that are included with KeyRig, only one is a GM synth, which severely limits you on how much of it you can use right now. Secondly, the 25 key keyboards only have two octaves, not a whole lot. Right now, I would go with this: http://www.amazon.com/Audio-KeyRig-Key-Keyboard-Controller/dp/B000NGG3HU/ref=tag_dpp_lp_edpp_ttl_inThis will give you the four synths and a 49 key keyboard, four octaves, which will allow you more room to play. The next thing I would do would be to ditch the KeyRig sound modules, and buy this: http://www.amazon.com/cakewalk-10-CWMC5-00-10C-Cakewalk-Music-Creator/dp/B0023RTCMU/ref=pd_sim_sw_1This will offer you the Roland TTS-1 software synth, which is a very good software synthesizer for those just starting out, PLUS, it will give you a Digital Audio Workstation to start to learn on. This will allow you to take the parts from Band In A Box, and save them as a .mid file, then open them in MC5. From there, you can record each track individually as audio, add effects, set volume and pan, and play with the instruments. You can also use the keyboard to input to MC5 as well. The 49 key keyboard, and MC5 will be at right about your $140, you'll need to pay tax and shipping extra, but in the end, it's a great way to start. Here's the information on MC5 from Cakewalk's site. http://www.cakewalk.com/products/musiccreator/Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Hi Gary,
I looked those two products up on Amazon. I saw that the keyboard only has a three-star rating, and Cakewalk has a two-star rating. Do you suppose it's because they are just using the wrong combination of software and hardware? You make a great case for buying the combo, but I was curious about the low consumer ratings. Also, is it true that M-Audio products can only be installed to one PC and one only? I saw something about the M-Audio software requiring registration via Microsoft's Genuine Software program and one rater said his wagon was painted because he could only use it on one machine.
BIAB 2006 did ship with a DXI version of the Roland synth, so I'm good there if I stick with the Vista laptop, right?
I think I'm almost there on the purchasing decision. Just a little more feedback from you and I'm ready to fire away!
Thanks,
Greg
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Greg,
As the one guy said, you get what you pay for.
"Cheap-O-MIDI Controller' says the keys are lightweight. Not unexpected or unusual in a product in this price range. If you want something 'substantial,' you'll be paying a couple of hundred dollars for it. More specifically, he says there are no controls on it other than a volume knob. Correct, this isn't a controller, it's a keyboard. He should have bought one of the Axiom or Oxygens.
The '...maybe only one computer!' is more for the software, I believe. You can download the actual device drivers from M-Audio's site, and if you aren't using the software synths that come with it, you shouldn't have an issue. Even if you are, if you only are installing it on your laptop, does it matter?
As to 'Sad Results' and 'Some Glitches', it's possible it went bad. Stuff happens. That's why it comes with a warranty.
As to Cakewalk, I will admit that it may be a bit hard to get your head around, especially if you aren't used to doing Digital Audio, and don't understand the work flow. If you have PowerTracks Pro Audio, you can use that instead, except that with MC5, you'll get the TTS-1, which is really the whole reason for buying it.
Gary
I'm blessed watching God do what He does best. I've had a few rough years, and I'm still not back to where I want to be, but I'm on the way and things are looking far better now than what they were!
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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