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I have a fake book in C called "The Standard real book"
If i take for instance "Ain't no sunshine" and I play the notes on the sax, how do I enter my chords in BIAB.
Do have have to transpose them from one key to another or do I just transpose them down by one tone.
or will it sound bad no matter what because I am playing the notes in the wrong key.
and if I get a fake book in Bb, do I still have to transpose the chords for my backing tracks or do I enter them as is.
Sorry for my ignorance , but I find this a little confusing.
I play the piano and the guitar, but the sax is new to me and I want to be able to create backing tracks for when I play.
Ron
Thks for all the help
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You can do it any of several ways. As of version 2010, you can enter the chords directly using Bb changes if you have the Bb fakebook.
Or you can enter the chords in C from the C Realbook and then use the transpose functions to change what you see to play along with a Bb instrument, without changing the pitch.
I play tenor. You probably know this, but just in case, a Bb tenor sax is a transposing instrument, and sounds a ninth lower than written. That's an octave plus a full step. So, if you want a concert C to sound, you play a D on the tenor sax. The horn is pitched a full step "low" so you play a full step "higher" to compensate.
Whatever you want to do with transposition and fakebooks, I'm sure the program can do it, and we can help you with specific questions.
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There are 2 ways to do this the easiest is through the Practice button where you are given transposition buttons.
Search on the Internet for "Alannah Band in a Box" and download some Band in a Box songs from there, not midi songs.
Then pick one of those songs and use the practice button to transpose.
If you don't like how low or high the notes in the Melody are you can use CTL ALT 1 OR CTL ALT 2, which when held down together over the notes cause them to go up or down an octave.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Hi MAtt, Now I know I`m making myself a complete idiot. Even as a studied jazz guitarist I never understood the transposing stuff (and never dared to ask my fellow musicians  . Of course I know how the instruments are transposed and in my compositions I have no problem transposing for the horns. But, the hell, WHY are some instruments transposed??? I mean: You guys learn from the beginning that if you put your fingers this or that way its a "D", but in real life (concert pitch) it`s a C. So why not learn it as what it is. Please enlighten an idiotic guitarist like me  Sandra
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A great question. So come on horn players enlighten us all!
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Quote:
But, the hell, WHY are some instruments transposed???
I mean: You guys learn from the beginning that if you put your fingers this or that way its a "D", but in real life (concert pitch) it`s a C. So why not learn it as what it is.
Please enlighten an idiotic guitarist like me
Sandra
It is because of the physics involved in the tubing lengths and where the fundamental notes in the column of air fall.
A guitarist can change string tension and thus change the open string notes rather easily by comparison.
The wind instrument player is at the mercy of the length of tubing in the horn.
It is not as simple as changing tubing length, either, as the Timbre of the instrument changes at the same time.
For example, the French Horn is in F typically. Trying to change the tubing length of a French Horn to make it into a C instrument also changes the sound of the French Horn so drastically that it doesn't sound like the French Horn anymore.
This is because of the overtone series. When a Wind Instrument player plays notes other than the fundamental, we rely on a system of changing the tubing length via valves that add or subract tubing, or holes in the instrument that make the tube appear shorter when open and longer when covered, or, in the case of the slide instruments like Trombone, the physical length is changed in a continuous fashion.
On top of changing the tubing length to play those other notes, we also find that we may have to apply different amounts of air pressure, critical embouchure changes (Embouchure describes the positioning of the mouth, lips, teeth, muscles, etc.) and a few other things besides.
So if you tried to turn, say, an Eb Alto Saxophone into a C instrument, it would be not only much smaller in size, it would sound different. And it does. There used to be a very popular instrument called the "C Melody Sax" -- very popular because the owners could read along with Piano Sheet Musics without transposition -- but the only problem with it was that it did not have the wonderful sound of the Eb Alto Sax at all.
--Mac
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I learned the Bflat baritone horns (both marching bugle and bflat Baritone at 52. Only because of band in a box and that wonderful transpose button. Then I set the keyboard to adjust the pitch by 2 semitones and play both, meaning a verse on one then the other. I can do that all day. I still can't count well, hate it when I have 17 bars of nothing to do but count, but that's in the brass band.
I asked all the same stuff from Dr. Hank Meredith who only has 5000 horns in his house, and got the same stuff Mac just posted, only we had 2 beers and it took an hour.
45 people in the band and he walks over and takes my horn and moves the slide a 1/8 inch and says, give me a concert b flat now. Jeez.
John Conley
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Following up on Mac's explanation, consider someone like me who plays a number of different horns. The fingering of the sax family is (almost) the same for each sax, so if I see a note E on the music, I finger it the same way for each sax, whether it is a bari or alto in Eb or a tenor or soprano in Bb. The sound that comes out will be a different pitch, so the person writing the music has to compensate by providing a transposed part. But I don't have to worry about how to finger it.
My trumpets are pitched in Bb (typical trumpet or flugelhorn), C (orchestral uses) and A (piccolo). Again, I don't have to relearn a different fingering system depending on which horn I'm playing (with only a few exceptions for funky notes, such as most trumpets have). I do need to get the music transposed to the correct key (or do the transposition in my head, but that's easier than relearning the fingering I've been using for 50 years).
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Quote:
Following up on Mac's explanation, consider someone like me who plays a number of different horns. The fingering of the sax family is (almost) the same for each sax, so if I see a note E on the music, I finger it the same way for each sax, whether it is a bari or alto in Eb or a tenor or soprano in Bb. The sound that comes out will be a different pitch, so the person writing the music has to compensate by providing a transposed part. But I don't have to worry about how to finger it.
That part I understand and that is just it. I already have the notes down and I don't want to spend all my time transposing the notes and printing new sheets, but if I can get BIAB to transpose just the chords for my backup music while I play my sax, that would be awesome. I am just afraid, it will sound a little off since I will be changing the tone to match my sax and not the other way around.
Ron
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You have your choice in BIAB.
You can change the pitch of the song so it looks correct for a Bb instrument.
Or, you can continue to play the song in the original pitch and just change the way the notes appear, so you can play along.
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Quote:
I am just afraid, it will sound a little off since I will be changing the tone to match my sax and not the other way around.
Ron
Don't be afraid of that one. If the song is within your range on your instrument, the key signature is of little consequence.
The only thing the performer must watch out for is that the audience will soon tire of hearing everything in the same key. They will not know why it bothers them for the most part. They will just know that they don't like that. So make sure that you don't pull that one. All songs, all night, in Eb or any other one key is a drag.
Also -- Make it a part of your Practice Regimen to go through songs you know well in other keys. Work your way around the circle of fifths using one key per day on all the songs you already know. BiaB can really help with that one, providing accompaniment, but don't make it a crutch for too long to simply read the transcription, work on getting it without looking at the notes going by, too. Pretty soon your muscle memory for other keys will kick in and you will find that you can play melodies that you know in your head but have never played before on your instrument, easily and without mistakes.
--Mac
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Hi guys, Now those were brilliant answers. I finally understand it These two answers made it all clear for me: Quote:
For example, the French Horn is in F typically. Trying to change the tubing length of a French Horn to make it into a C instrument also changes the sound of the French Horn so drastically that it doesn't sound like the French Horn anymore.
Thanks Mac
Quote:
The fingering of the sax family is (almost) the same for each sax, so if I see a note E on the music, I finger it the same way for each sax, whether it is a bari or alto in Eb or a tenor or soprano in Bb. The sound that comes out will be a different pitch, so the person writing the music has to compensate by providing a transposed part. But I don't have to worry about how to finger it.
Thanks Matt
You horn players are great transposers anyway! I play a lot of sessions. And when the nightmare of any "real instrumentalist"
, namely the vocalists come on stage it starts to get weird. They come up with notes in C, but because they slept bad last night, they have to sing (sometimes their own songs) 2 or 3 semitones lower.
Now thats no problem for me, but the poor horn players have to transpose to their horn pitch plus the singers wanted key. Everything on the fly, of course.
And if that werent enough those very special singers ALWAYS have to scat right after the head. No matter if there are 5 solists on stage waiting for their solo and no matter if they can`t scat at all. UUUUARRGH. That`s why I never go to the vocal sessions.
Sandra
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The only thing the performer must watch out for is that the audience will soon tire of hearing everything in the same key. They will not know why it bothers them for the most part. They will just know that they don't like that. So make sure that you don't pull that one. All songs, all night, in Eb or any other one key is a drag.
--Mac
Great advice and/or reminder for all performing musicians. I was given this advice (almost verbatim) from an old piano man when I was a mere youngster many years ago. I still do not understand the "audience why part" I only know it's true.
Just last week I was trying to explain this to a veteran reed man as I am helping him put together a one hour show. He loves to play in the key F (love) and while a one hour show might not be long enough for this "audience affect" to take place I sure don’t chance it.
Thanks for the reminder Mac!
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I'm a rookie so I'll just tell you what a rookie does. I have to deal mostly in "concert" keys because my wife plays the flute which is in C. Here's an easy way for the OP, aside from learning the circle of 5ths, etc. and transposing on the fly--not that I think you shouldn't attempt to learn those things. Let's say that I use a C fakebook and input the chords and melody in C. This is fine for my wife, but I play Bb trumpet. All I do is save the song and print out the notation for my wife. Then I transpose to Bb and print out the notation for me. Very simple. You always add 2 sharps or deduct 2 flats from the concert key and play all the notes up 2 intervals (1 note)---IF you want to manually transpose the score for yourself. If it's concert Eb, you play in F and one note up. No, I cannot transpose Flight of The Bumble Bee on the fly.---- As Mac and Matt say, the problem with the brass instruments is the length's of the tubing. Even on the very best Bb trumpets you still have to "kick out" the 3rd valve slide to play low D and C# in tune. This is relative to the particular horn also. You may also have to "kick out" the 1st valve slide for A above the staff. These gyrations are unique to Bb trumpets, but other brass instruments (and trumpets, too) may have to "lip' certain notes up or down to play the pitch in tune with the rest of the group. I'm sure that woodwinds may have similar gyrations to address. If you have a notation program, such as Sibelius, Finale, etc.. transposing is very easy. Just enter the notes in a concert key, add an instrument such as a Bb sax, copy and paste the notes you entered on the sax staff lines, click on sax in the drop down list of instruments, and you will see the sax part by itself transposed. Pretty slick! You can accomplish transposing very simply (works for me) or do it the way the pros do (wish I was there, but I'm an old guy now). I'm glad I had a simple choice or I would never have gotten this far. Good luck! Stan 
Last edited by Shastastan; 01/02/10 08:04 PM.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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Alright, now I'm really going to step in it, I'm sure.
A followup to Sandra's question, forget the physics lessons and all that, if a horn player plays a note on his horn and it's a A concert, why can't it simply be called a A for everyone? An A is an A is an A, right? If all the different players on all the different instruments were simply taught as kids that that note is an A, where's the problem? The point I'm trying to make here is pitch is absolute. The A below middle C is 440 and that's it regardless if it's on a piano, tuba, sax, violin or whatever. Think in terms of pitch not length of tubing on a Souzaphone. 440 is 440 so why isn't that tone called an A regardless of the instrument? Someone with perfect pitch hears 440 coming from an electrical hum to a foghorn in the harbor and says "that's an A". He won't say that's a Db for a tri tube glockenspruchen that sits in the fourth row in the Berlin Philharmonic.
Is this simply one of those legacy things like that much more efficient typing keyboard someone invented 30 years ago that was proven to be twice as fast as our querty keyboard but nobody cared since we all know the qwerty system and nobody was willing to learn a new one? To me this sounds like what this is all about. 300 years of classical music training and it is what it is now.
Bob
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Because of the fundamental, which is derived by the "open" note of the wind instrument, and, of course, the fingering issues, Bob.
Everyone new to this problem thinks they can solve it better.
After more investigation they will figure out that the solution is already there and that the old guys who workedit out did so empirically over time and came to the best possible conclusion.
--Mac
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The problem is, Bob, if I play an "A" on my trumpet (reading from my music that would be the 2nd space up in the staff), you will hear a "G". For you to hear A = 440, I will have to play a B. That's the note I use to tune with for orchestra or playing with C instruments. For band, I play a third space "C", but the C instruments have to play Bb to play the same note.
Sorry, but the tubing does make a difference for brass instruments because that's the way they are made. Yes, they do make trumpets in the key of C, but Bb's are more popular. As Mac sez, they do sound different. If you play a "C" instrument, such as piano, etc., you don't have to be concerned unless you are trying to arrange for what some are referring to as non-concert instruments. I call them non-C instruments because that's what they are. C instruments determine what the concert key is. If the key signature for the C instruments is D (2 sharps), the key signature for the Bb instruments is E (4 sharps). Yes the pitch, for a given note, is absolute---for the C instruments. The OP is just learning the tenor sax (Bb) so he has to be in the correct key to play in tune with the non Bb instruments.
Stan
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I used to try my C Trumpet, purchased for orchestra work, in Jazz settings.
It just don't sound right.
--Mac
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Agreed, I don't like the sound of my C for 'straight-ahead' jazz. But I do use it for Latin jazz a lot of the time.
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I thought a C trumpet would be great to play at church since I would just play from the hymnal. The choir director changed and the new one didn't want a trumpet anymore. I thought I would still like it to play with my wife on flute. She likes the tone of the flugel and cornet better so I sold the C trumpet. I don't miss it; I guess I just got too used to the Bb's.
Cornet Curmudgeon
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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