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Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2013
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Hello.
im curious about sight readers.
im just a self taught pub/bar busker sax player.
i usually play 50s jump blues/rnr,rockabilly,motown and memphis stax stuff with bands or solo.
i did study a lot of the bebop stuff and classical stuff to get a better understanding of music rather than just pop music.
i can usually get away with reading the dots for the simple horn lines which go along with the style of these genres.
i usually have to learn any solos by listening over and over and thats ok, some classic solos are available in sheet music form so thats ok but i have to play over and over to learn them. if the solos dont warrant note for note interpretation i can busk them easy enough.
what id like to know is if somebody put the dots to some
charlie parker,coltrane,gillespie,monk,mingus etc , would you be able to read and play with no practice before hand.
im curious because i had an audition for a bebop band and they requested good sight reader,it was for a cruise ship contract type of thing, excellent pay.
anyway, i lost my nerve and didnt turn up for the audition, didnt think id be able to read the chicken feet off the bat.
its been on mind for over 5 years if i would have been able to pull it off(lol).
ive always wondered if these guys who play in the philharmonics and similar type orchestras/bands just turn up and read the dots and play with no practice type of thing.
rebuilt styles,songs and real tracks.
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having worked with session musicians on professional recordings the guys who turn up can usually sight read most things. however, a solo from the jazz greats you quote will need expression and skill so its less likely to be 'straight from the dots'
i can sight read a guitar chord part most of the time for pop and country but jazz and big band stuff would leave me gasping.
i think you should have gone to the audition......the worst that could have happened is them turning you down and if the parts you were asked to play were too complicated a dignified and quick exit would not have scarred you for life.
i recently did trials for two 60s pop bands that needed a vocalist - songs that i know by heart but in both cases it just didn't work the way it had with previous bands. halfway through we all decided to stop.
we're all still happily making music - but separately!
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Journeyman
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There are plenty of people who can sight read pretty much anything you put in front of them. There is an old joke about how to make a guitarist stop playing, put the sheet music in front of him! Like anything it is a learned skill for most people. Requires practice, a metronome and music to read.
The cruise ship bands are pretty good at it. They have to get music in the afternoon sometimes for a visiting act, rehearse it once or twice and perform it that night on the stage.
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Sight reading is not my strongest skill but it’s adequate for all the shows I’ve played. However, I would never expect to have to sight read a jazz solo by the players you named. For one thing, if it’s a solo, there should be chord changes to play over.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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There are actually 2 skills in play here. Sight READING and sight PLAYING. I can look at music and hear in my head what it is supposed to sound like. But can I sit down and play it letter perfect on the first pass? Nope. Taking the reading skill into account, that doesn't automatically translate to the muscle memory it takes to play. As Matt said, I doubt anybody expects you to play complex solos that were improv when they were recorded note for note on pass 1. Get the first phrase that is familiar to the listeners and the last 4 leading back into the song. The rest is for you to create.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/04/22 04:33 AM.
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Decades ago, I could sightread just about anything. I could also sightread a concert chart and transpose it to Bb Tenor sax for any of the head charts in the Real Book or other Fake Books. But that's when I was doing it all the time. Like any skill, it takes practice, and the more you do it, the better you get at it. However, for over 30 years I've been in a duo where everything is pretty much memorized, so I think I'd have to woodshed at sightreading before going to an audition like that. I make my own backing tracks for my duo http://www.s-cats.com and having the luxury of time, I look over the music, and remembering my first band instructor in school, count-out any tricky parts. He would say, "If you can say it, you can play it." I make the tracks with a drum controller or keyboard, and I've never been a sightreader on the keyboard. Sax/wind-synthesizer is my main instrument. Drums, bass, guitar, and keys are just doubles. I would have practiced sightreading a few books like the "Charlie Parker Omnibook" and gone to the audition. If I didn't get the gig, I'd at least know what I needed to improve. BTW, back in the late 1980s our duo did cruise ships for 3 years on a 3-weeks with options contract. A lot has changed in the cruise industry since then, so I don't know if it still holds true, but it was a lot of fun. I did Carnival cruise lines, and they treated us well. Years later, I did 2 months at RCL/Celebrity, and they treated their staff like dirt. I jumped ship as soon as our contract was up. Notes ♫
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Back in the 80s I went to LA to show the music world how it was done. I went to an audition for a 4 piece jazz band looking for a sax player. Just some little, nothing/nobody band. I showed up 15 minutes before it started, and I was number 93! 92 other people showed up for this nothing gig. By the time I got called there were 25 more behind me.
I looked around the room and saw a familiar face. I went over and asked "Are you Lon Price?" He said yes. I said "Don't you play with Al Jarreau?" Again, yes. "So why are you HERE? This is a nothing little lounge band." His reply was a perfect "Because I pay bills and buy food just like you do. Al doesn't record and tour non-stop." I just shook my head and said "So what am I doing here?" He laughed and said "Hey. Do this for the experience. You may have something they like."
The auditions were at a movie theater. The band and their people were sitting in the 4th row with a cassette deck. I walked out and they said "On the table behind you are 5 folders. Pick one of them up, set it on the music stand, do not open it until we say so. Which folder do you have?" Whatever number it was I told them. They said "As soon as you open the folder we are going to start the tape. You will get a 4 measure count-off. Ready?" I asked them "Can I have a minute to look it over?" And I was never stopped so dead in my tracks by a single word. "Nope!"
I opened it up, the click started, and I played 4 1/2 minutes of the WORST music I have ever played. It was in Eb, 124 bpm, and at the bridge modulated to Db, then back to Eb... It was a fricking nightmare. I never knew until that day it was possible to both blush from embarrassment and be pale from having the soul sucked out of you at the same time.
But I did it!
They said "Thank you. Send the next one in please."
I jus nodded. Didn't dare even speak. Years later there was a Seinfeld episode where Elaine was interviewing for a job. The interviewer said "Thank you. We'll be in touch." Elaine said "I have NO chance, do it?" and the interviewer said "No." That is exactly how that day was.
Much like Herb's "Neil Peart" drummer with the flashy kit that couldn't play.
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Back in the 70s, I was in this club one night where they had and organist and drummer who would accompany guest singers. The organ was a Hammond C3 with a full pedal-board, so the guy was also playing the bass line with his feet. This girl turned up with songs she had written herself and handwritten manuscript which the organist obviously hadn't ever seen or heard before. During the second song I saw him stop playing with his left hand for a bar, and whilst still playing with his feet and right hand he picked up a pencil from the top of the organ, marked something on the manuscript and then carried on without a noticeable break. Afterwards, I went up to him and asked him what it was about. He said that he'd spotted an accidental which wasn't marked, so he'd put it in for her. Now that's what I call sight reading.
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Wow Eddie! That would scare me from ever doing an audition ever again. Not that I could think I ever could anyhow!
Jeff
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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It WAS intimidating, but I viewed it as a lesson in preparedness. That was very early in my full time music career and I truly had no business being there.
Later in life, I was in a really great Motown band that played in any state that touched a Great Lake. We had a standing rotating Sunday night gig at a bar called Cagney's. Some random Sunday I had 2 guys approach me and asked if they could talk to me somewhere quieter. We went to the dressing room. The lead guy told me he was starting a band much like the one I was in. Their bass player had come to see us 3 Sundays in a row, and they could really use me. I stared at him for what I am sure to him must have seemed like an hour before saying "Just so I understand. You are starting a band just like this one. You think you could use me. Could you tell me why you think I would leave a band the plays 4-5 nights a week and 9 shows a week during summer months to join a startup and start at square zero?" And then here's where the topic of auditions comes in. He actually said "Well, if you'd like to audition let me know." And I literally laughed at him and said "Audition? You said you have been scouting me. You came to me to try and steal me from this band, and you think I need to audition? The last 3 Sundays your bass player scouted me and this night when you are here yourself ARE my audition. If anything I would be auditioning YOU to see if your players are good enough to make a stupid move like leaving a band that works as much as we do." And he told me I was arrogant and left. Never saw him again.
That situation was a little different. LOL!!! The one in LA was like a high school football player trying out for an NFL team.
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Rog, that was both thoughtful and kind. That's the type of musician I'd like to play with.
Side note, I think Tommy Emmanuel is one of the greatest musicians and entertainers of all time. Ever seen a video of him playing with a musician that's not as good as Tommy is? He works hard to highlight and support the other musician while looking like he is having the time of his life. How great is that?
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I was playing in a pop music band in singles bars in South Florida in the 1970s.
I was getting $300/week for 5 nights, which was decent money back then. Plus, the gig was singles bars before AIDS reared its ugly head, I was recently divorced, and it was like playing in a candy store. Yum yum.
This guy asked me if I wanted to go on the road with a then famous band called The Trammps. They had a hit with "Disco Inferno,"
Curiously, I asked about the gig, and it only paid $200 a week, I'd have to travel in the band bus, and share motel rooms with other band members. But the guy told me I'd probably get laid a lot.
So I was living in a house we rented with a swimming pool, making half-again as much money, and playing singles bars and having fun with a lot of the girls. I told him "No thank you" and referred him to a music shop that I used to get my sax maintenance done. I figured they would know a lot of horn players.
I'd rather say "No thank you" than not have an opportunity at all.
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