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David Snyder beat me to it. I was going to point you to Tom Waits as well.
Good singer is a relative concept.
To address your question.
Obviously the vocaloid community is getting better all the time.
Another tried and true solution is to find someone else who is willing to sing the song. Ask a friend.
Also.... Work on your own abilities. Most folks can manage to sing well enough for rock and roll. Practice, maybe get a vocal coach, and sing.
One of those things should work for you.
In all fairness, there are some people who simply can not, and will not ever be able to sing well enough for anything. If you are one of those.... You will have to team up with someone who can. I worked with a cowriter who is definitely in that category. She writes brilliantly but it's fingernails on a chalkboard when she tries to sing. She knows what she is good at and what she's not and works with others who have stronger vocal abilities. That's how you accomplish the impossible.
To hear one of the songs she wrote.... Hit my link.... My music.... And scroll down to In a world without you. It's #20 on the list if i recall. She reached out to 2 people who helped put the song together. Myself and a really talented female singer.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 01/15/22 04:01 AM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Waves has a PlugIN called Waves Tune Real Time - it is pretty much an Pitch Correct thing - it's not perfect but used with an EQ + delay and reverb you might find your vocal is not as bad as you think. An important thing to note is, you also need a decent Mic the Sh58 will not do any good to your vocal for demos - you need something like this https://www.thomann.de/intl/rode_nt1a_complete_vocal_recording.htm or similar from your local music instrument shop. Last advice from me - practice a lot, and get to know what works well for your voice - find a good body positure and when you have spare moments humm or sing high falset notes and very low notes in order to both train your voice and get to know your body better when you sing and hum.
MacMini M1 - BIAB2021 - Logic Pro X - iZotope Music Production Suite - Scaler 2 - far too many Waves plugins and Line 6 Guitars and boards + a fantastic Yamaha THR10ll mini Amp - Avid MBOX Studio
Peters' Garage is available on all major streaming services
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Fiverr is good and the result may vary but are very much better than singing out of tune unpleasantly...there is a cost involved.
I don't do the 5vr thing though.
I have an appalling voice.
The more I use it, listen to it and try again the better it becomes - incrementally though.
I have a couple of songs that I can listen to and a bunch that I can't.
The synth things works pretty well.
Find & phone a friend?
Establish a relationship with forum members who may, eventually, offer, or respond positively to, a request to sing for you.
Melodyne is pretty good but subtlty is required...I know because I was sledge hammering for a while and the results reflect it.
ReaTune, in REAPER, is good but not as sophisticated.
Vocal fatteners can help...Reaper has a ReaDelay setting called Vocal Fattener and does juts that. It's a couple of ultra short delays spread a tiny % left and right of the original vocal.
Look at you vocal in a parametric EQ and gently boost the weak spots while carefully/surgically cutting back on the strident or rattly spots.
Want more bottom end and intimacy - sing close to the mic...want clarity and a rolled off bottom end - more back from the mic. Too much "room" in the capture hang a heavy blanket before & behind you about a meter.
Don't hide behind reverb...it does blur and mush the vocal but in the end leaves a smear that can be detrimental to the song.
Record a phrase at a time across multiple tracks...ensuring you've a glass of water at hand and a pop screen between you & the mic.
OH...find your range and write for it.
Mine is quite limited and blah but I've found that the chords in A maj suit me better than other keys because they don't press me to sing higher or lower than I can. OHHHHH, have you tried your falsetto voice? For some time I found that I was clearer and stronger up there than in my natural space...weird but true.
As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage. I have a couple of decent medium diaphragm condensers, some very cheap small D condensers and a bundle of dynamic mics. I was in a hurry to get an idea down the other day and grabbed the nearest mic...a cheap dynamic...it required the right amount of preamp boost but did a fine job or recording...I wish my singing was good enough to make the mic seem deficient. RUN with what you have/can afford. A 58 is, after all, a live & studio dynamic with quite a history. It simply needs more "gain" from the preamp because it's neither internally powered like, nor as sensitive as, a condenser.
Give it enough juic and it will record what is sung into it and not notice background noise much if at all.
Ah...personal question...do you sing relatively quietly so as not to disturb the family and/or embarrass yourself? If the answer is YES then you need to send them all to the cafe or beach so you can get loud and develop you breathing/lung capacity and belt out beyond the rattle - SERIOUSLY.
Bon Chance.
OH, BIAB has pitch correction too as mentioned...I don't use BIAb to track so don't know the ins n outs of it.
Last edited by rayc; 02/05/22 07:13 PM.
Cheers
rayc
"What's so funny about peace, love & understanding?" - N.Lowe
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Learn some Tom Waits songs.
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OP
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Thank you for your thoughtful suggestions. I will implement those that work for me.
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Journeyman
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Hi Blong, I am one step behind you I cant sing at all.What I do is I send my guide vocal to a singer from the website https://soundbetter.com/ or https://www.airgigs.com/.This will cost you ranging from 75 dollars and up depending on the singer you ask .It was the only way for me to get a professional sounding demo but its worth it.You will have to process the vocal yourself such as eq,compression,de essing ,reverb etc but their are plenty of instructional videos out there for that and I find it enjoybable ,yours H
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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What level of songwriter are you guys that you will pay $75 a song to have someone sing it? Are you placing songs on CDs? In commercials? Are you so well beyond the hobby level most of us here are that you pay for a singer to perform music nobody will likely ever hear? Just curious. I mean, I am not paying your tabs, but I just have to wonder what kind of music you are cranking out and where it ends up. I mean, none of us are exactly Diane Warren here...
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Don't under-rate members here. I've actually had forum members pay me 10 times that $75 amount for a given project/task, so everyone here is not a hobbyist. And yes, some has been used in commercials or TV Good gig if you can get it 
Last edited by rharv; 02/14/22 01:49 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Expert
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Expert
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Don't under-rate members here. I've actually had forum members pay me 10 times that $75 amount for a given project/task, so everyone here is not a hobbyist Even for hobbyists, how much money is that, really, to pay for a good recording of your own music that will last forever? I can think of a lot of things that cost $75, very few of which will add value to my life on anything like that level. I am indeed a mere hobbyist, and I have never hired a musician, but I started considering this approach seriously as soon as I learned of it here. Sometime soon, I really really want to pay a human singer to sing a song of mine, as of now still unwritten, just so I can hear it and share it and have it.
Last edited by Mark Hayes; 02/14/22 02:22 PM.
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Yes, that in itself has value.
For many of us, we have spent more than we made in the long run, but it was still worth every penny.
I feel close to breaking even, and have enjoyed all of it .. I have other ways to make money
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi Eddie, Here is an example of a singer I got to sing a song.On hindsight I was trying to make the song sound other worldly or from under the water and could have done better with the vocals.The vocalists are really good and they put alot of work in for the money and consider it great value as I have gone to amazing trouble to make a good backing track.The choice I have is a simple one ,I just cant sing or I can sing only to a guide vocal level . This will give you an idea of how good the singers are and more experienced producers on Biab would have done a better Job on the vocals I realize that now ,but im happy enough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUQoUJNPDKs&t=129s
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Hi Here are the examples of Band in a box songs with a singer from soundsbetter I have on soundcloud and I have to say I have no regrets at all and they were extremely professional .H https://soundcloud.com/user-219964721
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One software package I use is Studio one from Presonus it comes with basic Melodyne built in. Just a thought.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Zoom Livetrack L-8
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The more contacts you have in the music world the better chance you have to find a musician who can actually do what you want to be done.
$75 is a pretty low amount to pay a professional vocalist. $200 to $400 is a good ballpark number for a pro from Nashville for example. New York or London will cost more.
Paying a vocalist or other musician to sing or play something you want to create does not need to be profitable. In fact, it most likely will not be.
Paying for a vocalist is no different than buying another guitar that you have no real need for.
I have spent thousands of dollars producing music that may have sold some but never made a profit. I don't regret spending a penny on it.
What to get in the big time?
According to the research, acts like Dave Matthews Band, Bruce Springsteen, Justin Bieber (ugh), Justin Timberlake, and Taylor Swift are the most expensive to book, with an estimated rate of $1 million-plus per performance, while it'll run you around $125,000-$175,000 for “Happy” singer Pharrell.
There are vocalists on this forum who are wonderful singers and there are some who can not carry a tune around in a water bucket but are super entertaining to listen to. There is no requirement to sing well to be well-liked.
Just sing, we will listen and 99.9% of us will be very kind in our remarks.
This is a nice place with nice people.
Billy
EDIT: Just in case you actually want to hire Taylor call the office at (212) 645-0555 and one of our Taylor Swift booking agents will assist you in hiring Taylor Swift for a private event anywhere in the world.
Last edited by Planobilly; 02/15/22 04:51 PM.
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I would suggest looking for a pro singer through one of the many Nashville services. I had a song that I wanted to pitch in Nashville, and was fortunate enough to hook up with a guy named Brian Nolf, who played in Marty Stuart's band for many years. I sent him the song, with my rough vocal, and he returned it with a lead vocal and two background harmony tracks. It was well-received at NSAI, and was forwarded to their "Pitch To A Producer" program. It wasn't picked up  , but I was still pleased with the recording. https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/track/big-timeRegards, Bob
Last edited by 90 dB; 02/16/22 03:48 PM.
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I would suggest looking for a pro singer through one of the many Nashville services. I had a song that I wanted to pitch in Nashville, and was fortunate enough to hook up with a guy named Brian Noff, who played in Marty Stuart's band for many years. I sent him the song, with my rough vocal, and he returned it with a lead vocal and two background harmony tracks. It was well-received at NSAI, and was forwarded to their "Pitch To A Producer" program. It wasn't picked up , but I was still pleased with the recording. https://90dbband.bandcamp.com/track/big-timeHigh-quality country song Bob. Very commercial sounding. This is the sort of song that gets played on today's radio. Perhaps it will get picked up at some point. This is typical of the quality of vocals that you can buy in Nashville. First-class work. This is the sort of song that you can listen to years from now and smile and say I did that and it was worth every hour and every dollar I invested in it. Here is one I did using a Nashville vocalist. https://soundcloud.com/planobilly/mooney?utm_source=clipboard&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=social_sharingBilly Billy Regards, Bob
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As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage Yes. Even the SM57/58 — both sound less than ideal into a modern solid state interface due to mismatched high impedance (these were designed to see the 600Ω Bell Telephone spec found in nearly everything in the '50s–'60s). A little tweak to a barrel connector or a mic cable fixes that and turns these into the excellent mics that they were designed to be. I recommend reading this article on the problem, then the sidebar on what you can do inexpensively to fix it. Recording Mag article on SM57
BIAB 2026 Audiophile Mac
24Core/60CoreGPU M2 MacStudioUltra/8TB/192GB Sequoia/Tahoe, M1 & M5 MBAir, 2012 MBP
Digital Performer11, Logic, Finale27/Dorico/Encore/SmartScore/Notion/Overture
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The answer lies in: "I want to record demos."
The skill level of your singer needs to be equal to what's expected from your demo. If you're just doing a demo to show off to friends or a band to get an idea of the song, the skill level is pretty low.
If you're trying to create demos to pitch songs, applying pitch correction to your voice isn't enough. A good singer doesn't just sing words on pitch, they'll emote and interpret the song in a style-appropriate way. You're paying for the performance, and that's not something that you can add via pitch correction.
And just like anything else, you may want to consider hiring out other tasks as well - especially if it's not something you've done before. For example, mixing is a fairly specialized skill.
Obviously, you can easily go broke on a pursuit that can quickly eat up a ton of money and bring in no return for your dollar. So at the end of the day, you'll want to also consider what you're willing to pay for a bunch of well-recorded demos of your songs that never got picked up.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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As for microphones...eh, they all record...you can work out the foibles of any mic to your advantage Yes. Even the SM57/58 — both sound less than ideal into a modern solid state interface due to mismatched high impedance (these were designed to see the 600Ω Bell Telephone spec found in nearly everything in the '50s–'60s). A little tweak to a barrel connector or a mic cable fixes that and turns these into the excellent mics that they were designed to be. I recommend reading this article on the problem, then the sidebar on what you can do inexpensively to fix it. Recording Mag article on SM57 Wouldn't something with switchable impedance like a VTB1 preamp do the same thing? Seems to here. I don't trust my soldering .. <grin>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 11 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
XPro Styles PAK 11 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 (and higher) is here with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 31 RealTracks/RealDrums!
Guess who’s back again? That’s right! It’s our XPro Styles PAK’s triumphant return with the 11th edition in this series! 100 new styles are coming your way spread across the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres. And this edition's wildcard genre explores the immense and far-reaching catalogue of electronic music! The included 31 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1-11 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 11 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2026 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 22 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2026 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2026 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
It’s time to celebrate! Xtra Styles PAK 22 for Band-in-a-Box® is here, and we've got 200 brand-new styles coming your way!
No Xtra Styles PAK is complete without the classic rock & pop, jazz, and country volumes you know and love, and we’ve got plenty to share, with 150 styles spread across too many genres to list! Of course, it also wouldn’t be complete with our special wildcard volume to add a little spice and pizzazz to the mix. This year, because we loved it so much the first time, we’ve decided to make the second iteration of our SynthMaster volume, full of new sounds, interesting genres, and 50 engaging styles, all making use of the diverse SynthMaster plugin! Here you can find genres such as airy yacht rock, sultry electrotango, and even some synth soca funk. Don’t wait, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 22 today!
In this PAK you can find: dulcet folk ballads, funky gospel country, Brazilian jazz fusion, upbeat 1980s pop, classic Americana, a plethora of breezy bossa novas, indie singer-songwriter, scintillating synthwave, exuberant electronica, and many, many more!
Special offers available until August 31st, 2026!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1-22 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 22 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 22.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 22 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 22 requires the 2026 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Peter Gannon Talks Band-in-a-Box with zplane
zplane recently interviewed Peter Gannon, the founder and creator of Band-in-a-Box, about the software's early days, what sets it apart from AI, how zplane's audio algorithms are used in Band-in-a-Box, and more!
Special thanks to the team at zplane for their continued support.
Check out the full interview here: https://products.zplane.de/blog/peter-gannon-interview-pg-music
Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PDT today!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the amazing new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. View the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to transcribe an entire track or transcribe specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Mac® to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
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