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I've recently found that some 6/8 songs are really good. Singing feels like chatting and telling. I think it sounds better than 4/4.
Also, why do I use a 12/8 accompaniment to sing a 6/8 song?
For example, what I edited in BIAB is 6/8, but it is changed to 12/8, so I can still sing. Even I think 12/8 is more suitable.
WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
Any sw8 (swing 8th note) style can be used in a 6/8 or 12/8 song. Depending on the style, some may be fantastic and others might not work at all.
Each basic, numbered, cell in the BiaB matrix can hold 3 or 4 beats. You can force 1 or 2 with the F5 command.
If your cell is 4 beats, and the style has sw8 there are potentially 12 beats there, as we often take 12/8 time signatures in 4. So the cell is a 12/8 bar of music. That cell same cell can also be two 6/8 bars of music (taken in 2).
So if your 6/8 style is taken in two, you can consider that cell two 6/8 bars of music. Or you can use the F5 command to change the beats in a bar to 2, and then each cell is one 6/8 bar.
Another creative way around this, especially for 6/8 styles that are taken in 6 instead of 2, is to use an appropriate waltz style (if there is one). In that case, each BiaB cell becomes one half a 6/8 bar or music.
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/17/22 02:58 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Notes Norton's method is one that we would highly recommend! We do have some 6/8 Styles included in the newest versions of Band-in-a-Box and hope to add more. If there are specific 6/8 Styles you would like to see in the future, please share them in our Wishlist forums here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=6&page=1
Best,
Jerry
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
......................
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ I agree but IMHO I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Brian Cadoret
BIAB 2025 Pro build 1125e with BIAB2023 UltraPAK . Samplitude Pro X4 Suite. Mixcraft 10.5 Pro Studio
Focusrite 2i2 Scarlett
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz
Installed RAM 8.00 GB
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..I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV Yes, as it don't fit when I set Reaper to 6/8 This all needs to be fixed in the BBPlugin/Standalone this year to give "Look Ma RealTimeSignatures", I think Biab could be too far gone to fix now ? 
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..I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV Yes, as it don't fit when I set Reaper to 6/8 This all needs to be fixed in the BBPlugin/Standalone this year to give "Look Ma RealTimeSignatures", I think Biab could be too far gone to fix now ? .................... Same here when I put them in Studio One Pro. It would be nice to see them in the VST. I think you are right about BiaB.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
......................
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ I agree but IMHO I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV I think the problem is that BiaB started in the DOS days, when personal computing was still in its infancy. I'm guessing this was the best way to make things work back then. PG Music has always been about back-compatibility. What would happen to all the songs and styles we have if PG music should do a whole re-write and render our collections obsolete? Would it render our present styles and songs obsolete? Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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..........................
I think the problem is that BiaB started in the DOS days, when personal computing was still in its infancy. I'm guessing this was the best way to make things work back then.
PG Music has always been about back-compatibility.
What would happen to all the songs and styles we have if PG music should do a whole re-write and render our collections obsolete? Would it render our present styles and songs obsolete?
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ In all due respect a complete rewrite does not have to eliminate all previous styles or songs. It could just add to them. BiaB has a goldmine in RTs however on the MIDI side there are a number of individual MIDI programs that blow BiaB out of the water, especially when it comes to time signatures, which is very important when transferring a MIDI song to a DAW. No one yet has put a total package together like BiaB, JJazz Lab comes close, but I believe it is just a matter of time. YMMV
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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The Biab Plugin Standalone is an excellent way to get rid of the all the DOS restrictions from Biab rather than the nightmare of a Biab total rewrite. I can see no reason why the styles should not be backward compatible. It will trim Biab down to a light non bloated version that's easier to learn. Because of the cross platform programming this could then be released at the same time on Win and Mac, also being self contained (not using bbw4 in the background) it would work on Linux with the available Win VST bridges.
Because there are so many more Win users buying Biab they have to fork out the bill to spend so much time and money on the Mac version because of apple constantly changing things to profiteer with total disregard for continual app compatibility (unlike Win where old apps just keep working over the decades and you don't need a different OS version for each app) and for software developers having to spend so much time and money bowing down to apple to make apps compatible for a new monthly OS release for a short lived experience each time there is a change, time can be spent on the BBPlugin to give play direct and instant generate times so users don't have to first build up the song in Biab main app but can be instantly generated up faster than Biab in the VST version or the BBPlugin Standalone as has been demonstrated in the Biab Track Injector for REAPER.
Not to mention a Biab Live Arranger that can be made using this method.
All that would have to bring PG into the future, wouldn't it ?
I could of followed apple and got my ideas made made up in china for $5 and sell them for $500 but I just give them freely to PG.
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<...snip...>
In all due respect a complete rewrite does not have to eliminate all previous styles or songs. It could just add to them.<...> I don't know that much about it, it was only a guess. Another guess. Bring the app into the 21st century with real time signatures, long file names, up to 16 chords per bar without going through a micro-chord function, add at least 240ppq in the MIDI (or even better 960), and whatever other improvements people have in their wish list. Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system. Again a guess. Possible? Probable? Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system. That would be my approach, but it does leave an issue with, for example, transferring songs from the new version BiaB to band members with older version. One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new; one answer may be to allow export or conversion to the older format, subject to the limitations of the older format, but personally I think that's just making things messy again. If a seamless conversion is wanted, then the external conversion program could just be run BiaB.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I don't know that much about it, it was only a guess.
.................... Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system.
Again a guess.
Possible?
Probable?
Notes ♫
Yes, my idea was only a guess also so I apologize if it was taken as fact. I would be extremely happy if someone wrote conversion app now to convert time signatures. Make it a third party or separate app to convert BiaB files to the correct time signature for transferring songs to a DAW. Probable? Probably not but I can dream!
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Was just having a go at fitting these to the actual real time signature. I tried the 54_SWING.STY 5/4 over 1 bar and I add 25% to the tempo in Biab that is 130bpm based on 4/4 I get 162.5bpm so I set REAPER to that then the audio will fit if it has no Acid info added. The midi I had to set the playrate to 0.8 If I have a 12/8 style spread over 2 bars @120bpm I set REAPER to 90bpm -25% The midi I had to set the playrate to 1.333 If it's over 1 bar then set tempo to 180bpm The midi I had to set the playrate to 0.666  
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One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new PG Music offers a program only update during each new release sale. If the program only upgrade for $49 US doesn't work I'm not sure what will. Perhaps PG Music could offer the program only update throughout the year. When you consider the discount during a sale is about 40 percent the program only update would cost about $69 when the update is not on sale.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new PG Music offers a program only update during each new release sale. If the program only upgrade for $49 US doesn't work I'm not sure what will. Perhaps PG Music could offer the program only update throughout the year. When you consider the discount during a sale is about 40 percent the program only update would cost about $69 when the update is not on sale. People are sometimes dissuaded from an upgrade, partly because "I don't need/want the new features". I have a friend who hadn't updated for many years for that reason, but recently updated as he finally felt it was worthwhile. I don't know what scale of update he did. A new more consistent, more ergonomic interface might be the push needed. A new but different interface than needs learning over may be a strong dissuader. Unfortunately I can't say which would be dominant for anyone but me. :-(
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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<...snip...>
A new more consistent, more ergonomic interface might be the push needed.
A new but different interface than needs learning over may be a strong dissuader.
Unfortunately I can't say which would be dominant for anyone but me. :-( A good example of this is the QWERTY keyboard. The QWERTY arrangement was designed to slow your speed of typing. In the early days of typewriters, fast typists would jam the keys, so QWERTY was invented. A relative of the composer Antonin Dvorak invented the DVORAK keyboard system, which put the most used letters in the most favorable positions, allowing people to type quicker. In the early days of PCs, there was a software switch to change your keyboard from the QWERTY to the DVORAK. But people already knew how to type on the QWERTY and didn't want to learn the new system. Various transposing un-piano-keyboard synths have been proposed, but none of them have caught on either. Most people comfortable with a complex skill are reluctant to go back to square one. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/21/22 03:06 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Most people comfortable with a complex skill are reluctant to go back to square one. ... and that's a huge and important issue! Over the years I've had to get work teams to use tools that are potentially "boring and useless". Things like bug-trackers, revision management, documentation tools, ISO9000, ... I would not like to guess how much time I've spent finding the least unpleasant tools to use and how much time I've spent making it easy for the people who have to use them to see the value in them. If it's reasonably user-friendly and they see the benefits to themselves, people will change/adapt. We've all had moments of "I can't be doing with this!". It's difficult, and with good reason. Frustratingly, sometimes it's the most convoluted and arcane tools that are the hardest to change from, simply because they were so hard to learn in the first place. Familiar hot-keys that one to a reasonably familiar place can help, though sometimes the hot-keys are so arcane that that only half helps. Right-click on anything to see a menu of things one can do with that object is consistent and fairly friendly. It may be just me, but I think some of BiaB's dialogs just have too much stuff in them. I'm not sure whether they need sub-dialogs, or just logical partitions into, say, panels. There's a lot to be said for rapid-prototypes of straw-man(*) ideas. (*)Hmm ... straw-non-gender-stereotypical-entity ideas. Pinata? :-)
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Regarding compound time signatures like 12/8 ( or 6/8 or 9/8 BiaB already supports 12/8. Including notation, and chord entry (using 3 MicroChords per beat). For playback, it is treated as 4/4, because that’s how most musicians count it. Here’s a good video explaining that https://youtu.be/SQbrGlyG-vw or this one https://youtu.be/cItjWpgDTTkSame idea for 6/8 (which is like 2/4, assuming that the feel is two groups of 3) also supported in notation in BiaB.(with 3 MicroChords per beat) And 9/8 (counted as 3/4 with 3 groups of triplets). BiaB, with 9/8 notation available; and 3 MicroChords per beat.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Here's the 5/4 playing in REAPER. I set Biab to 96bpm to get 120bmp @5/4. Where there are 4 chords in a bar they will occur on beat 1234 of 5 to get it on beat 5 you would need to use Micro Chords. If you can work out a way of using the Micro Chords so they are not Micro Chord entry in a signature greater than 4 and have the actual tempo for that beat, count-ins and metronome. Maybe you can work it out to match the DAW time signature as not everyone stays in Biab. Maybe it's a can of worms I am opening and you just need to concentrate on the BBPlugin/Standalone mods ? Watch https://www.dropbox.com/s/hq8jvyktrhoc6gu/BB-54-Reaper.mp4?dl=0Download https://www.reatrak.com/downloads/biab/BB-54-Reaper.mp4
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
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Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
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Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!
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This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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