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I've recently found that some 6/8 songs are really good. Singing feels like chatting and telling. I think it sounds better than 4/4.
Also, why do I use a 12/8 accompaniment to sing a 6/8 song?
For example, what I edited in BIAB is 6/8, but it is changed to 12/8, so I can still sing. Even I think 12/8 is more suitable.
WIN10 20H2, AMD R4800H ,16G , 2T ,FOCUSRITE 2i4 MKII，Studio One,FL STUDIO
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
Any sw8 (swing 8th note) style can be used in a 6/8 or 12/8 song. Depending on the style, some may be fantastic and others might not work at all.
Each basic, numbered, cell in the BiaB matrix can hold 3 or 4 beats. You can force 1 or 2 with the F5 command.
If your cell is 4 beats, and the style has sw8 there are potentially 12 beats there, as we often take 12/8 time signatures in 4. So the cell is a 12/8 bar of music. That cell same cell can also be two 6/8 bars of music (taken in 2).
So if your 6/8 style is taken in two, you can consider that cell two 6/8 bars of music. Or you can use the F5 command to change the beats in a bar to 2, and then each cell is one 6/8 bar.
Another creative way around this, especially for 6/8 styles that are taken in 6 instead of 2, is to use an appropriate waltz style (if there is one). In that case, each BiaB cell becomes one half a 6/8 bar or music.
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/17/22 02:58 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Notes Norton's method is one that we would highly recommend! We do have some 6/8 Styles included in the newest versions of Band-in-a-Box and hope to add more. If there are specific 6/8 Styles you would like to see in the future, please share them in our Wishlist forums here: https://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=6&page=1
Best,
Jerry
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
......................
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ I agree but IMHO I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Brian Cadoret
BIAB 2025 Pro build 1125e with BIAB2023 UltraPAK . Samplitude Pro X4 Suite. Mixcraft 10.5 Pro Studio
Focusrite 2i2 Scarlett
Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz 3.20 GHz
Installed RAM 8.00 GB
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..I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV Yes, as it don't fit when I set Reaper to 6/8 This all needs to be fixed in the BBPlugin/Standalone this year to give "Look Ma RealTimeSignatures", I think Biab could be too far gone to fix now ? 
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..I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV Yes, as it don't fit when I set Reaper to 6/8 This all needs to be fixed in the BBPlugin/Standalone this year to give "Look Ma RealTimeSignatures", I think Biab could be too far gone to fix now ? .................... Same here when I put them in Studio One Pro. It would be nice to see them in the VST. I think you are right about BiaB.
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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BiaB doesn't really do 6/8 or 12/8.
......................
BiaB is a very flexible app, and these are a couple of ways to expand the flexibility.
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ I agree but IMHO I think BiaB should do real 6/8, 12/8, 5/4, etc time signatures and not crush everything into 2/4, 3/4, or 4/4. YMMV I think the problem is that BiaB started in the DOS days, when personal computing was still in its infancy. I'm guessing this was the best way to make things work back then. PG Music has always been about back-compatibility. What would happen to all the songs and styles we have if PG music should do a whole re-write and render our collections obsolete? Would it render our present styles and songs obsolete? Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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..........................
I think the problem is that BiaB started in the DOS days, when personal computing was still in its infancy. I'm guessing this was the best way to make things work back then.
PG Music has always been about back-compatibility.
What would happen to all the songs and styles we have if PG music should do a whole re-write and render our collections obsolete? Would it render our present styles and songs obsolete?
Insights and incites by Notes ♫ In all due respect a complete rewrite does not have to eliminate all previous styles or songs. It could just add to them. BiaB has a goldmine in RTs however on the MIDI side there are a number of individual MIDI programs that blow BiaB out of the water, especially when it comes to time signatures, which is very important when transferring a MIDI song to a DAW. No one yet has put a total package together like BiaB, JJazz Lab comes close, but I believe it is just a matter of time. YMMV
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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The Biab Plugin Standalone is an excellent way to get rid of the all the DOS restrictions from Biab rather than the nightmare of a Biab total rewrite. I can see no reason why the styles should not be backward compatible. It will trim Biab down to a light non bloated version that's easier to learn. Because of the cross platform programming this could then be released at the same time on Win and Mac, also being self contained (not using bbw4 in the background) it would work on Linux with the available Win VST bridges.
Because there are so many more Win users buying Biab they have to fork out the bill to spend so much time and money on the Mac version because of apple constantly changing things to profiteer with total disregard for continual app compatibility (unlike Win where old apps just keep working over the decades and you don't need a different OS version for each app) and for software developers having to spend so much time and money bowing down to apple to make apps compatible for a new monthly OS release for a short lived experience each time there is a change, time can be spent on the BBPlugin to give play direct and instant generate times so users don't have to first build up the song in Biab main app but can be instantly generated up faster than Biab in the VST version or the BBPlugin Standalone as has been demonstrated in the Biab Track Injector for REAPER.
Not to mention a Biab Live Arranger that can be made using this method.
All that would have to bring PG into the future, wouldn't it ?
I could of followed apple and got my ideas made made up in china for $5 and sell them for $500 but I just give them freely to PG.
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<...snip...>
In all due respect a complete rewrite does not have to eliminate all previous styles or songs. It could just add to them.<...> I don't know that much about it, it was only a guess. Another guess. Bring the app into the 21st century with real time signatures, long file names, up to 16 chords per bar without going through a micro-chord function, add at least 240ppq in the MIDI (or even better 960), and whatever other improvements people have in their wish list. Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system. Again a guess. Possible? Probable? Notes ♫
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system. That would be my approach, but it does leave an issue with, for example, transferring songs from the new version BiaB to band members with older version. One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new; one answer may be to allow export or conversion to the older format, subject to the limitations of the older format, but personally I think that's just making things messy again. If a seamless conversion is wanted, then the external conversion program could just be run BiaB.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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I don't know that much about it, it was only a guess.
.................... Then write and include a conversion app to convert the old song and style files to the new system.
Again a guess.
Possible?
Probable?
Notes ♫
Yes, my idea was only a guess also so I apologize if it was taken as fact. I would be extremely happy if someone wrote conversion app now to convert time signatures. Make it a third party or separate app to convert BiaB files to the correct time signature for transferring songs to a DAW. Probable? Probably not but I can dream!
Back in my day the only time we started panic buying was when the bartender shouted "last call"!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Was just having a go at fitting these to the actual real time signature. I tried the 54_SWING.STY 5/4 over 1 bar and I add 25% to the tempo in Biab that is 130bpm based on 4/4 I get 162.5bpm so I set REAPER to that then the audio will fit if it has no Acid info added. The midi I had to set the playrate to 0.8 If I have a 12/8 style spread over 2 bars @120bpm I set REAPER to 90bpm -25% The midi I had to set the playrate to 1.333 If it's over 1 bar then set tempo to 180bpm The midi I had to set the playrate to 0.666  
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One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new PG Music offers a program only update during each new release sale. If the program only upgrade for $49 US doesn't work I'm not sure what will. Perhaps PG Music could offer the program only update throughout the year. When you consider the discount during a sale is about 40 percent the program only update would cost about $69 when the update is not on sale.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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One answer to that might be to offer a very competitive upgrade from older versions to the new PG Music offers a program only update during each new release sale. If the program only upgrade for $49 US doesn't work I'm not sure what will. Perhaps PG Music could offer the program only update throughout the year. When you consider the discount during a sale is about 40 percent the program only update would cost about $69 when the update is not on sale. People are sometimes dissuaded from an upgrade, partly because "I don't need/want the new features". I have a friend who hadn't updated for many years for that reason, but recently updated as he finally felt it was worthwhile. I don't know what scale of update he did. A new more consistent, more ergonomic interface might be the push needed. A new but different interface than needs learning over may be a strong dissuader. Unfortunately I can't say which would be dominant for anyone but me. :-(
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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<...snip...>
A new more consistent, more ergonomic interface might be the push needed.
A new but different interface than needs learning over may be a strong dissuader.
Unfortunately I can't say which would be dominant for anyone but me. :-( A good example of this is the QWERTY keyboard. The QWERTY arrangement was designed to slow your speed of typing. In the early days of typewriters, fast typists would jam the keys, so QWERTY was invented. A relative of the composer Antonin Dvorak invented the DVORAK keyboard system, which put the most used letters in the most favorable positions, allowing people to type quicker. In the early days of PCs, there was a software switch to change your keyboard from the QWERTY to the DVORAK. But people already knew how to type on the QWERTY and didn't want to learn the new system. Various transposing un-piano-keyboard synths have been proposed, but none of them have caught on either. Most people comfortable with a complex skill are reluctant to go back to square one. Insights and incites by Notes ♫
Last edited by Notes Norton; 06/21/22 03:06 AM.
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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Most people comfortable with a complex skill are reluctant to go back to square one. ... and that's a huge and important issue! Over the years I've had to get work teams to use tools that are potentially "boring and useless". Things like bug-trackers, revision management, documentation tools, ISO9000, ... I would not like to guess how much time I've spent finding the least unpleasant tools to use and how much time I've spent making it easy for the people who have to use them to see the value in them. If it's reasonably user-friendly and they see the benefits to themselves, people will change/adapt. We've all had moments of "I can't be doing with this!". It's difficult, and with good reason. Frustratingly, sometimes it's the most convoluted and arcane tools that are the hardest to change from, simply because they were so hard to learn in the first place. Familiar hot-keys that one to a reasonably familiar place can help, though sometimes the hot-keys are so arcane that that only half helps. Right-click on anything to see a menu of things one can do with that object is consistent and fairly friendly. It may be just me, but I think some of BiaB's dialogs just have too much stuff in them. I'm not sure whether they need sub-dialogs, or just logical partitions into, say, panels. There's a lot to be said for rapid-prototypes of straw-man(*) ideas. (*)Hmm ... straw-non-gender-stereotypical-entity ideas. Pinata? :-)
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful.
AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11
BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software.
Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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PG Music Staff
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Regarding compound time signatures like 12/8 ( or 6/8 or 9/8 BiaB already supports 12/8. Including notation, and chord entry (using 3 MicroChords per beat). For playback, it is treated as 4/4, because that’s how most musicians count it. Here’s a good video explaining that https://youtu.be/SQbrGlyG-vw or this one https://youtu.be/cItjWpgDTTkSame idea for 6/8 (which is like 2/4, assuming that the feel is two groups of 3) also supported in notation in BiaB.(with 3 MicroChords per beat) And 9/8 (counted as 3/4 with 3 groups of triplets). BiaB, with 9/8 notation available; and 3 MicroChords per beat.
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Here's the 5/4 playing in REAPER. I set Biab to 96bpm to get 120bmp @5/4. Where there are 4 chords in a bar they will occur on beat 1234 of 5 to get it on beat 5 you would need to use Micro Chords. If you can work out a way of using the Micro Chords so they are not Micro Chord entry in a signature greater than 4 and have the actual tempo for that beat, count-ins and metronome. Maybe you can work it out to match the DAW time signature as not everyone stays in Biab. Maybe it's a can of worms I am opening and you just need to concentrate on the BBPlugin/Standalone mods ? Watch https://www.dropbox.com/s/hq8jvyktrhoc6gu/BB-54-Reaper.mp4?dl=0Download https://www.reatrak.com/downloads/biab/BB-54-Reaper.mp4
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