If I want to make a 120bpm 12/8 track play in Biab I have to set the base tempo to 80 and the main tempo to 80. You should be able to have the chord entry per beat rather than having to enter a comma for two chords two beats so if you up the time signature per bar you can just select the beat and enter the chord. I'm getting a headache thinking about it, I'm forever finding workarounds over the years, sounds like more worms, again just mod the BBPlugin I think. It's like that as it was made for backing/learning and never thought it would be used to create songs/add tracks to a DAW.
Are there more users now that want it for tracks in a DAW or more that want a backing band ????
You need to think musically, not based on DAW math. 12/8 time signatures have tempos around 40-90, and are counted as 4/4, not in “12” The tempo of the 12/8 song you posted is 80, not 120 as you’ve set it up in reaper. === If you were thinking musically, that slow blues shuffle you posted would have just been done in 4/4 at tempo of 80, and would never have needed an artificial transformation to a tempo of 120. You would have just stayed in 4/4, and maybe added a few tracks of your own playing, and ended up with a great sounding blues song.
Just tap your foot … that’s the tempo. These compound time signatures like 12/8, 6/8, 9/8 are for the NOTATION display only, and they’re not how you play them musically.
Thanks Peter for the video links that explains the subject very well. So I see how that is done musically. I also appreciate the fact we can do this with the microchords. This was a great new feature.
I guess my question would be, would a video to show how this can be transferred to a typical DAW be possible. Maybe this could benefit a lot of the users here that are commenting on this.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB 2025, Realband, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 9 32c , Melodyne 5 editor, Presonus Audiobox 1818VSL, Presonus control app.
> I guess my question would be, would a video to show how this can be transferred to a typical DAW be possible. Maybe this could benefit a lot of the users here that are commenting on this.
We could make a video. It would be something like this.
- time signatures 1. Simple 4/4 3/4 2/4
2. - compound time signatures (groups of triplets, for notation only, still played and counted in /4) 12/8 (variation of 4/4) 9.8 (variation of 3/4) 6/8 (variation of 2/4)
3. - irregular time signatures 5/4 , 11/8, 9/8 but counted as 4+4+1
The most important point to me is realizing that “compound” time signatures are just for notation. And that means you can stick with 4/4, 3/4 and 2/4 unless you have a genuine “irregular” time signature like 5/4, or the rare case of something like 9/8 that isn’t counted with triplets and is treated like 4+4+1
In the world of pop music, irregular time signatures aren’t that common. BiaB handles any x/4 time signature (eg 5.4 as 3/4+2/4) , and also handles the compound time signatures (12/8, 9/8, 6/8) for notation, and micro-chord entry on each beat.
There’s another time signature used for notation only - 2/2 aka “cut time”. That’s where you notate a bar of sixteenth notes as two bars of 8th notes, to make it more readable. That’s another variation of 4/4, used to notate music with lots of 16th notes (as played) , like bluegrass or samba, so that they get notated as 8th notes.
In terms of using them in a DAW, only the simple (4/4, 3/4) and the irregular types (5/4, 7/4) should be used imo. Things run off the rails if the compound time signatures (12/8) are treated as if they have 12 beats per bar (instead of 4 in 4/4).
..................... Just tap your foot … that’s the tempo. These compound time signatures like 12/8, 6/8, 9/8 are for the NOTATION display only, and they’re not how you play them musically.
Thanx Peter for this explanation. But I still would like real time signatures that I can work with in my DAW
Yes a video would be very helpful.
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I'd appreciate seeing a video that explains time signatures and why notation differs from counting or foot tapping. Understanding that a notation time signature is used to make the sheet music easier to read makes a lot of sense. That's kind of a light bulb moment for me!
I can explain where the DAWS frequently go “off-the-rails” with the compound (aka triplet) time signatures like 6/8, 9/8, 12/8. And the DAW mis-treatment of 12/8 as having two 8th notes = 1 beat (instead of 3), which leads people down a rabbit hole, wondering what the tempo is supposed to be, and what the heck is going on.
Imagine a 4/4 song, tempo of 60. Let’s say it’s a slow triplet feel blues. Now it has triplets throughout it, and someone prefers to call it 12/8. That is completely normal, and they could call it 12/8. Now musically, we still call the 12/8 file as having tempo of 60. This is indicated as putting [dotted quarter note = 60] indicating that THREE 8th notes = 1 beat. - the problem is that some DAWS look at 12/8, and think that TWO 8th notes = 1 beat. So they think the tempo of the file is 90, which would be needed to play the 12 notes (6 beats) in one bar. This would put the beats at non-musical points in the bar [beat 1, triplet 1] [ beat 1, triplet 3] [beat 2, triplet 2] etc. - do now in the DAW we’ve lost the idea that this was ever a tempo = 60 song.
So the DAW is thinking that there are two 8th notes per beat, whereas COMPOUND time signature by definition have THREE 8th notes per beat. (12/8, 9/8, 6/8). If the DAW had a setting to declare that this is 12/8, but THREE 8th notes per beat, all would be well, and they would set the tempo to 60, which is the correct tempo, not 90.
Of course all this goes away if you just leave the time signature at 4/4 at tempo of 60, which BiaB does. And BiaB gives you the option to view as 12/8 notation, while preserving the 4/4 playback. As a bonus, you get to mix n match with the 90% of RealTracks and realdrums that are 4/4 based.
Time signatures are flexible and a lot of what we play doesn't neatly fall into any particular meter.
I remember when I was in the school stage band (back then the word "jazz" wasn't used in school) we played a lot of charts from the big bands, Woody Herman, Artie Shaw, Benny Goodman, etc.
They were almost always written in cut time, but played at slow to moderate tempos would have made more sense at 4/4.
Plus, most were written with eighth notes when they were swing tunes, and they were played more like triplets. But a quarter note and eighth note with the triplet designation on top of every pair would have made a messy chart. If you understood the eighth notes should be done as a swing pair, it was much easier to read.
Some charts used dotted eighths/sixteenths to designate the swing feel, but that was just as off.
12/8 would have worked better, but 12/8 is harder to read for the less experienced players that also found their way into the big bands of old.
That's why our brains have to be flexible.
It's also why I think of the numbered matrix in BiaB as cells instead of bars. It allows me to make music with BiaB that would be difficult or impossible to do with one cell limited to one bar.
For example: When I was doing Jethro Tull's "Living In The Past", which is in 5/4 I could make one cell have 3 beats and the next 2 beats. That made two cells equal one 5/4 bar of music.
Plus to get the smoother feel Tull uses on that song, I made the tempo of each 3 beat cell a little faster than the 2 beat cells. It's how the band got the smoother feel out of 5/4.
That trick is similar to how most conductors interpret the 5/4 waltz movement in Tchaikovsky's 4th symphony.
But then, I don't use BiaB for notation. I find the notation editor a great help, but I use BiaB for auto-accompaniment. In the rare instances when I need notation, I'll use an old copy of Encore that I bought years ago. For a head chart, that's all I need. YMMV
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
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XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
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Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
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These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
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This Free Bonus PAK includes:
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-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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