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My brain hurts…

I have a 4/4 song I imported as a Music XML file with a two beat pick up measure. BiaB rendered it as a 4 beat bar (measure).

I want to change this 1st measure to a two beat 1st measure instead of 4 beats so I used the Bar Settings to make that 1st measure 2 beats and set measure 2 to 4 beats.

When I play it, the melody starts in the first measure on beat 1 however, it continues on beat 3 of the 2nd measure (set to 4/4), not beat 1 as expected or as the music reads. In other words, the melody is shifted forward by the number of beats I deleted from measure 1.

The chord symbol in measure 2 is also on beat 1 and it sounds on the proper beat so it is just the melody that is getting shifted. (I think)

I tried the “Nudge Chord/Melody” thing (plus & minus values) but no matter what I’ve tried so far, if the first measure is 4 beats, the 1st measure plays as if it was written as two quarter notes followed by a half rest with the melody resuming on the first beat of measure 2…

OR

If I set the first measure as a two beat measure, it plays as if it was 2 quarter notes in a 2 beat measure 1, followed by a half rest in measure 2 for the first two beats with the melody resuming on beat three.

I even tried using the Chord Settings to make the chord in measure 1 sound on beat 3, but nothing I've tried gets the melody on beat for measure 2 to the end of the song.

I think the problem is when I make a 4 beat measure a two beat measure, BiaB gets rid of beats 3 & 4 instead of 1 & 2 which makes the count for the first two measures 1-2-(3)-(4), 1-2-3-4 instead of (1)-(2)-3-4, 1-2-3-4, if you understand what I mean.

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks in advance for any insight or help you can offer!!

I have some projects that start with pickup notes before the first measure. Horace Silver's Lonely Woman is my latest example. So how do I handle that?

I know that every BIAB song can have a two bar count-in from the drums. Yet all other instruments don't start playing until beat one of measure one. To get around this fact I change the song length and arrangement to treat measure 2 as the first measure/bar of the song, and use the actual first measure together with the chord settings dialog to have my melody instrument only (the other instruments rest in measure 1) play the pickup notes on say beats 3 and four as in your situation.

A rule of thumb for me is to avoid changing the number of beats in the early measures of a tune. While the software allows it and that capability helps users in projects with odd time signatures, it's too complex a manipulation for this user and hard for me to predict and control the results.

Alternatively: If my melody track is midi-based, I pull that into my DAW and add edit the midi track to add the pickup notes in the correct beats before the first measure.

This is what I do when I have pick-up notes to deal with, yet there other approaches no doubt and the experts here will chime in here soon I suspect. They always do. :-)

It's not just pick-up notes that are affected. If you create a song in BIAB with a melody then decide that a certain bar needs to be 2/4 instead of 4/4, the regeneration of chords will be correct but the melody will be displaced by 2 beats from that point. As Rocket.123 suggests, my workaround for this is to export the melody into RealBand for editing, the import back into BIAB.

Vintage

Vintage:

I guess that begs two questions and two comments.

First, why doesn't Band in a Box import the Music XML file correctly in the first place, meaning with a properly notated pick-up measure?

Second, why doesn't the "Nudge Chord/Melody" work as described?

Comment 1: I can't get RealBand to do anything but crash whenever I attempt to import any file into it so that option is out, at least for me.

Comment 2: With all of the "can't do this, can't do that, use a DAW, try this convoluted work around..." issues I have experienced with BiaB in the short time I have used it, I am SO delighted I only bought the Pro Version...

Regardless, thanks for the suggestions!

< First, why doesn't Band in a Box import the Music XML file correctly in the first place, meaning with a properly notated pick-up measure? >
Your first post comments indicate that BIAB is configured normally in 4/4, 6 note count-in, song begins at bar 1 beat one configuration. BIAB reads whatever data that's included with the Music XML imported file for any re-configuration instructions. It appears to me that while the XML file displays properly in the Music XML program, that program is not exporting the proper data for BIAB to change its configuration to recognize and expect data that BIAB is not configured to see in its current configuration.

< Second, why doesn't the "Nudge Chord/Melody" work as described? >
It's not the proper tool for this task. This seems like a edit copy/paste task.

< Comment 1: I can't get RealBand to do anything but crash whenever I attempt to import any file into it so that option is out, at least for me. >
This also sounds like a configuration issue. Likely between the program and OS. Properly configured, RealBand is stable.
Second, RealBand nor another DAW is necessary to edit a file.

< Comment 2: With all of the "can't do this, can't do that, use a DAW, try this convoluted work around..." issues I have experienced with BiaB in the short time I have used it, I am SO delighted I only bought the Pro Version... >
Valid point. Users are sharing their personal workflow and giving helpful advice from what they've developed to be the easiest and most efficient editing method in regard to their personal knowledge of audio editing. Most have years, if not decades, of use and experience and a highly developed work flow in a DAW environment. It's always good and sufficient advice and instructions in that environment. It also seems a majority of active forum users use a BIAB/DAW combination workflow. While such advice implies BIAB either isn't capable of doing the edit or it's too complex and convoluted to edit in BIAB, that's not the case.

BIAB is a powerful digital Multi Track recorder with a robust Audio Editor and mix capabilities. BIAB can produce a song with dozens of instruments and dozens of tracks in a single song render, just like a DAW. BIAB can effectively bus 4 acoustic guitars, volume leveled and panned on the same track and all getting the same effects on them, just like a DAW. Editing in BIAB is fast, easy, familiar processes that because they're done in BIAB, require no exporting and importing files back and forth between another software program. Editing in BIAB also provides instant review of an edit with all of the other tracks and production of the current BIAB project. Editing in BIAB retains access and availability to all of BIAB's full range of features, tools, techniques and content. No DAW in existence, including RB, can do that.

Your Pro Version purchase delight is misplaced. The core program of BIAB is the same across every version and the 'pro' limitations are in content and accessories only. Your version has all of the powerful recording, editing and mixing capabilities of any level or version of BIAB program. They are all the same.

If you get a nice pick up measure, simply freeze that track so you don't lose it.

Personally, I like to work in a DAW when it comes to mixing and production. In the DAW, it's easy to copy and paste to create the pickup notes, record it live, or use midi and a synth to get the proper pickup notes to start the song.

That's just my preferred way to do it.

In all honesty, I purchased BiaB to one simple thing and it can't do that at present without a time consuming workaround resulting in an audio file that still isn't satisfactory for my needs.

My delight in having spent the minimal amount of $$$ on a Pro Edition comes from my frustration and the realization upgrading or initially purchasing a more robust version would have been a colossal waste of money.

I'll find a use for BiaB, however it will just end up as another piece of music software on my PC that get utilized occasionally versus a valuable tool in my kit.

As I have already wasted a tremendous amount of time getting headaches trying to do what I need to do in BiaB, can anyone recommend a good Windows based DAW?

It seems like that may be simpler than endlessly perusing the user's guide or viewing outdated PGM videos for an answer that isn't out there.

Asking for a good Windows based DAW is like asking what is the best car to purchase. You will get a number of different answers, including mine. I suggest you try demos of the various DAWs and select the one that is best for your workflow.

I use Presonus Studio One Pro 5.5. It does everything that I need in a DAW, is very easy to use, and fits my workflow perfectly.

What I do for pickup notes in BiaB I do the entire song in 4/4. I then bring the BiaB file into Studio One and work on the entire song. When I am happy with it I delete the first two beats of the first measure as well as any instruments I do not want to sound in the pickup measure. Thus I have the pickup bar as I want. Note this is only my workflow and others may/will have different workflows.

Good luck in finding a DAW and I hope this helps.

{edit} I forgot to add that it is very easy to move individual tracks and/or notes in Studio One. In BiaB's first measure let BiaB play the first two beats and start you pickup notes on beat 3 and 4, then use the procedure I mentioned above.

Originally Posted By: Appoggiatura

My brain hurts…

I have a 4/4 song I imported as a Music XML file with a two beat pick up measure. BiaB rendered it as a 4 beat bar (measure).

I want to change this 1st measure to a two beat 1st measure instead of 4 beats so I used the Bar Settings to make that 1st measure 2 beats and set measure 2 to 4 beats.

When I play it, the melody starts in the first measure on beat 1 however, it continues on beat 3 of the 2nd measure (set to 4/4), not beat 1 as expected or as the music reads. In other words, the melody is shifted forward by the number of beats I deleted from measure 1.

The chord symbol in measure 2 is also on beat 1 and it sounds on the proper beat so it is just the melody that is getting shifted. (I think)

I tried the “Nudge Chord/Melody” thing (plus & minus values) but no matter what I’ve tried so far, if the first measure is 4 beats, the 1st measure plays as if it was written as two quarter notes followed by a half rest with the melody resuming on the first beat of measure 2…

OR

If I set the first measure as a two beat measure, it plays as if it was 2 quarter notes in a 2 beat measure 1, followed by a half rest in measure 2 for the first two beats with the melody resuming on beat three.

I even tried using the Chord Settings to make the chord in measure 1 sound on beat 3, but nothing I've tried gets the melody on beat for measure 2 to the end of the song.

I think the problem is when I make a 4 beat measure a two beat measure, BiaB gets rid of beats 3 & 4 instead of 1 & 2 which makes the count for the first two measures 1-2-(3)-(4), 1-2-3-4 instead of (1)-(2)-3-4, 1-2-3-4, if you understand what I mean.

What am I doing wrong???

Thanks in advance for any insight or help you can offer!!

Your first post details your attempts properly place 'pick up notes' in a measure. Every posted reply indicates the solution to capturing and placing 'pick up notes' have assumed the notes either exist in their DAW project as audio or midi. Assume the same for BIAB and the solution is the same - Copy the desired phrase and paste it in the -1 bar as the 'pick up notes' for your song. It doesn't appear from your post that you've tried to edit and copy/paste the phrase in either BIAB or a DAW.

There's no need to change the first measure in your BIAB project from four beats to two beats. There's no need to nudge/chord melody of an entire track. Try the copy/paste phrase method using the BIAB Audio Editor or if it's MIDI, the Piano Roll or Notation Window. Assuming the phrase exists in the BIAB project, from the Audio Editor or either MIDI editor - to copy the phrase from any measure in the same track or if the phrase resides on another track, wherever it resides, use your curser to highlight the phrase, Copy it - you can use the Windows shortcut - Ctrl-C then move to the track and location you want to paste the phrase and use the Windows shortcut Ctrl-V to paste it.

The whole process shouldn't take longer than 10-15 seconds on your first try.

Charlie:

When I copy the two notes from the Piano Roll and TRY and paste them into the second half of measure 1a where they belong, they paste into the first two beats of measure 2.

If I paste them into measure -1 they don't play and the other tracks paste as well.

Bottom line, I am either still doing it wrong or for some reason it isn't working.

MarioD:

There MAY be a fix for this issue NOT requiring a DAW, in the meantime the other issue I have with BiaB (detailed in another topic), I resolved with a few clicks in Audacity.

While it is NOT like the powerful DAW you mentioned, it did the trick and I didn't have to spend a dime.

It MAY work for me for this issue as well if the fix is a flop.

Thanks again for your suggestions & help!!

Originally Posted By: Appoggiatura

Charlie:

When I copy the two notes from the Piano Roll and TRY and paste them into the second half of measure 1a where they belong, they paste into the first two beats of measure 2.

If I paste them into measure -1 they don't play and the other tracks paste as well.

Bottom line, I am either still doing it wrong or for some reason it isn't working.

I believe something's incorrect on your system or settings. I've attached two screenshots testing two notes from the Piano Roll pasting them at various spots in the 0 measure of my song and I can put them anywhere. I've marked where the indicator for my curser for my last paste.

Well I tried with two different files and get the same result so it must be on my end...

I really don't have the energy to go through another complete BiaB uninstall and reinstall for the FORTH time to see if that resolves my problem(s). I have already wasted several days trying to do a few simple things with BiaB and getting nowhere.

I'll just chalk it up to another thing I cannot do, see if a fix for the inaccurate rendering of MusicXML files ever comes down the pike before the next version is released. In the meantime, I'll use other software to resolve the problem if it ever needs to be resolved in the future.

Thanks again Charlie.

I also use Audacity! It is the best free software in my arsenal!

Hi,
Anybody know why pick up notes in the lead in bar inserted in piano roll won’t save? Already check preferences. Same with real tracks in notation. Pedal steel only wants to play legato and I see no option in the notation for detached notes? Furthermore, they will not save as soon as the piano roll or notation windows are closed they all disappear grrrrr
Thank you

Welcome to the forums, but clearly no to BiaB.

If you place your own notation on a track, freeze the track, otherwise it won't be saved / will be over written.

Welcome to the forum. I think you will get more answers if you start a new thread and do so for each different question. We do know about saving notes, AudioTrack gave you the answer, and there is more to it. For more help, you could start a new question.

This is one highly capable piece of software. As such, it is not something that you can open and suddenly you're doing the advanced stuff. Sure, it gets you into the music and creating new songs really quickly, but the deeper you want to go below the surface, you quickly realize just how much there is to learn.

So my advice is to take the time to learn what it CAN do and then start building on that foundation and learn the unique things you want it to do. Sometimes, yep, it's going to take a bit of out of the box thinking to get things done exactly like you want. But that's what you need to do. Don't throw in the towel before you even get below the surface on this. If you do, that's your loss and you'll likely spend a lot more time looking for the answer elsewhere verses the time it would take you to learn to do what you need to do here with BB.

When you have issues and problems, ask here. THere's a good chance you're not the first to encounter it.

Any way...... hope this helps....

100% plus 1 to what Herb said above... 100%