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G'day all, following on from a thread hijack in "ethical considerations" I thought I'd post this link - Liam is a young man I've known (we've rehearsed in some of the same bands) for about 4 years (he's 16 or 17 now) and it's been quite a pleasure watching his talent grow. He plays piano, trumpet and vocal chords  His piano playing is pretty good, his trumpet needs work, but his vocal chords show the work he's put into them pretty well. It doesn't hurt that he was born with a voice too  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8lv7OCiotI&feature=player_embeddedHope you like jazz
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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I'd pick on guitar players before singers. Especially the ones that try to do both. 
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Very Strong Performance.
"There's alsways room for the best."
--Mac
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I think singers are musicians. No matter what instrument or voice a person plays I think there are different developmental levels. There are hobbyist players, intermediate players and masters. As there are singers of all proficiency levels. When someone can take a high end gig as a singer there is no doubt a lot of musical skill involved....Especially when a singer can sightread w/out even needing a starting pitch. Wow! that's some chops right there if you ask me!....probably most singers that get to that level can play one or more instruments as well.
...........Jeff......
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P.S. great singer in the video. I really enjoy the swing band as well...Great stuff!
...........Jeff......
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Quote:
P.S. great singer in the video. I really enjoy the swing band as well...Great stuff!
The singer is Liam Burrows. He's 16 or 17 and only stands about 5'4". Nothing wrong with being short, it's just that when you meet him you think "upstart kid" and then he opens his mouth and this 60' tall voice comes out. He still blows me away every time I perform with him.
The band is John Morrison's "Swing City big Band". Well known here in Oz, especialy in Sydney. John is trumpeter James Morrison's big brother.
They both spend a lot of time encouraging and developing young talent in jazz genres. I recently attended a live concert with Swing City and a bunch of school bands (years 3 to 12) that was great fun. It was a benefit night for, IIRC, the "Royal Flying Doctor Service". John's brother James made a guest appearance for the night - man it was good!
http://www.swingcity.com.au/
http://www.jamesmorrison.com.au/James_Morrison/Welcome.html
BTW, I agree, singers are musicians. This thread resulted after some light hearted banter between bobcflatpicker and myself. Hey Bob, *owyagoinmateorrite?
* that's Aussie for "How are you going mate, all right?"
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Good job. Not exactly the easiest song to sing, IMO.
Don S.
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Lawrie, I’m doin’ okay. I just wasn’t planning on weighing in on this since we’ve already debated it at length on the other thread. But I take it you’d like my input, so I’ll make it brief. Merriam-Webster’s online definition is: Quote:
a composer, conductor, or performer of music; especially : INSTRUMENTALIST
So by this definition, a singer is a musician, but take note of the last part: “especially instrumentalist”.
By the common sense definition of musician, if you can’t play an instrument, you aren’t a musician. I have a tendency to lean toward common sense ideas rather than politically correct “all inclusive” ones. The “all inclusive” idea is the main reason people want to label a singer as a musician. There is a point where that "all inclusive" stance becomes deceptive, so IMHO calling a singer a musician is deceptive.
BTW, the kid can sing, and since you said he play’s piano and trumpet, he’s also a musician. That means he has the potential of wearing 2 hats in the music industry. Singer AND musician.
Nuff said for me on this topic. I thought we had exhausted it on the other thread.
Last edited by bobcflatpicker; 01/01/11 05:03 PM.
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Quote:
I’m doin’ okay.
Glad to hear it
Quote:
BTW, the kid can sing, and since you said he play’s piano and trumpet, he’s also a musician. That means he has the potential of wearing 2 hats in the music industry. Singer AND musician.
That's why I posted the link. Like any teenager you sometimes want to take cricket bat to him but in reality he's a pretty good kid as well as being talented.
Quote:
Nuff said for me on this topic. I thought we had exhausted it on the other thread.
We had, but ya gotta check the sig.. Sometimes I just don't know when to stop
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Lawrie, Quote:
Quote:
Nuff said for me on this topic. I thought we had exhausted it on the other thread.
We had, but ya gotta check the sig.. Sometimes I just don't know when to stop
Wouldn’t you think after something has played out as part of a thread that’s had over 1100 views and 87 comments, that starting a new thread on that part of the topic and then calling out someone by name, that it might be time to stop?
Especially on something as mundane as a definition of a term that is at best, debatable, and at worst deceitful?
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As you will. It seemed to me to simply be a good opportunity to showcase Liam with a title that would attract curiosity. Quote:
Especially on something as mundane as a definition of a term that is at best is debatable, and at worst deceitful?
I don't see any deceit in that particular definition, but then you and I don't share the same perspective in this case. It's still been fun.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Lawrie,
It was fun until it started over again on another thread.
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Good singers are musicians.
Serious singers who know music theory and have control of their instrument are the kinds of singers I hire.
There are singers, guitarists, drummers, and players of just about every other instrument that are not musicians, but there more of them in the easy instruments to pick up, and voice is perhaps the easiest.
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She was gorgeous, vivacious, and had a great persona for entertainment whether on tv or stage. She was definitely a musician! She was one of the most innovative, pitch accurate, phrase perfect, singers of her time and well into this era. Of the tracks she created I know of no one who has duplicated it to her perfection. Who is this mystery guest....Mary Ford. Les Paul (idol) certainly had the ideas and concepts but Mary had an integral part in the arranging, and recording the vocals. Certainly there are others but she is at the top my list on this thread. Thanks, DennisD
There are only 3 kinds of musicians: those that can count, and those that can't!
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I once worked with a singer who had a good voice but would argue that you played in the wrong key. NEVER do that with a musician ! He'd often come in on the wrong pitch and it made ME look the bad one. He built up some bookings riding along on the back of his famous brother. He was the type of person who didn't pay up fees on time so I told him where to shove his work.
I'm the leader, I get the biggest share, the box player's next he gets next. The drummer gets the smallest. Totally selfish & wrong.
I remember one of the best I ever played to was a Japanese woman.
I announced a bveautiful tune called song of the seashore. She asked if she could sing it. I agreed. WOW ! What a magnificent voice, almost angelic.
My view then ? yes a singer IS a musician if he / she knows how to use their voice properly. Many I've worked with knew what keys they sang every song in and were happy moving up from D to Eb for the last verse of a song. Very effective in Scottish music.
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This kid is really good!
Thanks for the link,
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This is an interesting person to feature as the musician=singer example.
The reason I say this is that my high-school vocal teacher absolutely loathed Frank Sinatra. I went to high school in the 80's so there was plenty of pop-singers to pick on for poor pipes.
What bothered Mr. Longrie so much was Sinatra's use of slides to notes, which never worked well in choral music.
But what he failed to recognize, that it was specifically Sinatra's 'cool' with the slides that made him so popular. Not unlike controlled string bending on the guitar, Sinatra wasn't the first to bend notes so much I'm sure, but he sure made it popular and gave it a swagger that the world was wanting to hear.
The kid does a decent job of mimicking, but I have to say that it stops at that for me - mimickry (sp?).
My favorite musicians and artists always take something of the old and make something new from it.
-Scott
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as a singer I would regard myself as a "musician" with reasonable pipes.Ive noticed a lot of the young singers today do strange things with their vocals(Im not sure if it even has a name)its what Mariah Carey always did(and overdid)when singing her songs.As a singer of the 60's I never did sing that way but I guess I could have adjusted my voice to it if it was "cool"to sing like that back then.I think the kid has a big future if he is handled right.Frankie
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Quote:
Ive noticed a lot of the young singers today do strange things with their vocals(Im not sure if it even has a name)its what Mariah Carey always did(and overdid)when singing her songs.
During one of the early seasons of Australian Idol a judge bagged out a contestant for overdoing what he called "verbal gymnastics". Personally I think it can be quite effective as a one off type highlight in a song, but using it all the time just makes me want to turn of the music. I like Carey's voice, but I don't bother listening to her because of the overuse of such gymnastics - it just detracts from the overall performance IMHO.
It's a bit like some jazz solos you hear - really technically excellent and amazing proficiency with the instrument, but no soul. The only emotion I sense during these instrumental gymnastics is agitation 
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
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Taste and technique.
If you overuse any effect, it loses it's effectiveness. That goes for vocalists and other musicians as well.
Music is made of notes, and the control of those notes is our technique.
When to play or sing those notes and how to play or sing those notes are examples of our taste.
Technique is best applied to serve the music, not the other way around.
The greatest masters hide their great technique so you don't notice it, instead you notice the music.
One more thing, you can teach technique, but you cannot teach taste. All you can do is teach a person how to listen to the music, and if they have the inborn talent, the music will come out right, if not, there is nothing you can do but train a good technician.
This applies to all musicians, vocalists included.
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