PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Ketron Upper Bank Patches

In your example I don't see nothing that is switching they are all zero.
Brian

The SD2 Upper Banks will respond to MSB values of 2, 4, or 10.

All of yours are zeros. Zero MSB = standard GM Bank on the Ketron.


Don't know what the problem could be but suspect either Cockpit Error of some sort or possibly you are using the same single songfile that may be corrupted. Have you tried hitting New and trying to assign Upper Banks on a New experimental songfile?

**What do the MSB Spinners read in this songfile? If they are all zeros, then nothing got assigned. If, however, the Spinners reflect the Upper Banks commands you wanted, with a 2, 4, or 10 there, then I'd suspect a bug.**


--Mac

As others have noticed they're all 0, which shouldn't be the case. But is that the entire list?

In the MIDI Monitor, press the Clear button, then play your song. When it's passed some of your bank changes, you can stop the song. Press the Save Text button. Press Copy, then paste (CTRL+V) into your forum post.

Thanks Brian, Mac, Andrew

Quote:

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The SD2 Upper Banks will respond to MSB values of 2, 4, or 10.

All of yours are zeros. Zero MSB = standard GM Bank on the Ketron.


Don't know what the problem could be but suspect either Cockpit Error of some sort or possibly you are using the same single songfile that may be corrupted. Have you tried hitting New and trying to assign Upper Banks on a New experimental songfile?

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No Mac, it's both old songs and newly created songs.

Quote:

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**What do the MSB Spinners read in this songfile? If they are all zeros, then nothing got assigned. If, however, the Spinners reflect the Upper Banks commands you wanted, with a 2, 4, or 10 there, then I'd suspect a bug.**

--Mac

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I'm entirely sure what you mean her Mac, is it this?


Does Crl 0 directly under MSB bank bear any significance?



I've created an 8 bar sequence, with patch changes every bar. Bars 1,3,5, & 7 are lower bank patches, and 2,4,6 & 8 are higher bank. BIAB changes the lowers, but not the highers.
Here's the MIDI monitor printout.
Evt # Time (mS) Source Raw Status Chan Data 1 Data 2
1 0 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
2 0 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
3 0 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
4 0 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
5 0 1 B6 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
6 1 1 B6 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
7 1 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
8 1 1 B5 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
9 1 1 B3 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
10 1 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
11 1 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
12 1 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
13 2 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
14 2 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
15 2 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
16 2 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
17 2 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
18 2 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
19 2 1 B6 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
20 2 1 B6 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
21 2 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
22 2 1 B5 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
23 2 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
24 3 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
25 3 1 B3 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
26 4 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
27 4 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
28 4 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
29 4 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
30 4 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
31 4 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
32 4 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
33 4 1 B6 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
34 5 1 B6 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
35 5 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
36 5 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
37 5 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
38 5 1 B5 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
39 5 1 B3 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
40 6 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
41 4857 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
42 4857 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
43 5787 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
44 6385 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
45 7856 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
46 8455 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
47 9056 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
48 9655 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
49 9655 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
50 10586 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
51 11187 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
52 12656 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
53 13257 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
54 13856 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
55 14455 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
56 14455 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
57 19255 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
58 19255 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0

I guess that that CC#0 represents lower patch changes, and CC#32 higher patch.

Thank in advance for any advice.

Hi,
just tried sending out patch & bank changes using the sd2 patch map to my korg pa800.

Even though the sd2 patch map won't change the banks on my korg ( because it uses LSB & MSB controller for Bank Changes, unlike Ketron which only uses MSB ) I was still able to monitor what BIAB was sending. On my system BIAB is definately sending the various MSB ( bank changes).

Hi Rikki,
Thank you for checking that for me. I'm convinced that a setting has somehow been changed, but I'm blowed if I can find where. I doubt it's a bug becauses everyone else's is working okay.

Go through the prefs and make sure the appropriate boxes are checked to allow patch and bank changes. Also check the overrides menu.

Keith--

When you load a songfile that has Upper Bank patches in it, you should be able to see the MSB spinner block underneath the Tracknames indicate that Upper Bank selection (like, 1, 2, 4, 10) when the Track is selected by its Radio Button at the top. No need to open any other window.

If you don't see an Upper Bank number in the MSB window and all you see is a zero, then the Save didn't work.

As for the Controller 32 or zero label, that is just another name for Most Significant Bit (MSB) or Lest Significant Bit (LSB) in MIDI-talk. Means the same thing, it is just that different manufacturers of MIDI gear may call it different names - and there are even other more cryptic ways they have of putting this in their owner's manuals, unfortunately. In your case, the MSB is the only thing you have to deal with in the SD2, and those Upper Bank numbers I've given you correspond to the single number at the top of each page of available patches in the back of your SD2 owner's manual.

So try changing the MSB value in the spinner on the main page MANUALLY to one of those numbers and see if you hear the instrument patch change. If so, try doing a Save with Patches and Harmony and check the boxes to the right and check Fill with Patches from there and see if your patch changes stick.


--Mac

A little explanation of this MSB & LSB thing.
In MIDI a parameter can only have 128 values-typically 0-127. This also applies to program changes.With this restriction you'd only be able to have 128 Patches.In comes the MSB. It to can have 128 values so now you can have 128 MSB Values x 128 patches for each MSB value = 16,384 Patches. Now add in 128 LSB Values for each MSB value and it's 128LSB X 128MSB X 128PATCHES = 2097152 Total Patches Available.

Makes no sense.

My workflow would be, given the above

1. Start song verify odd noises are there.
2. Mute 1st Track. Repeat. Continue until you mute each track except the drum track.
3. Put the midi drum track on the screen in editable notation and play and watch for what is happening.

Because the midi drum track is supposed to regenerate based on the midi pattern every time play is pressed the only explanation is that something is wrong with the style file.

Other than that some spurious data is on Ch10 some other place.

Also verify that there is NO .wav file of the same name in the folder.

Also verify that there are no sounds happening if the ketron is shut off.

Sounds like the MSB data did not get saved to the songfiles for some reason.

Have you tried the "Save with Patches and Harmony" window instead (as outlined above in one of my posts)?


--Mac

Sorry Mac, Yes, I forgot to mention that I have tried that with no luck.

I'm now considering a complete reinstall, but before I do, just as a test I loaded BIAB onto another computer, set some alternate bank 0 and bank 1 patches, and ran the MIDI monitor.

Is this the response that I should be getting?

Evt # Time (mS) Source Raw Status Chan Data 1 Data 2
1 1808 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
2 1808 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
3 1809 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
4 1809 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
5 1809 1 B5 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
6 1809 1 B5 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 6 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
7 1810 1 B6 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
8 1810 1 B6 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 7 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
9 1810 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
10 1811 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
11 1811 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
12 1812 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
13 1812 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
14 1812 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
15 1813 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
16 1813 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
17 1813 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
18 1813 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
19 1814 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
20 1814 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
21 1815 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
22 1815 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
23 1815 1 B4 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
24 1815 1 B4 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 5 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
25 1816 1 B1 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
26 1816 1 B1 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 2 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
27 1816 1 B2 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
28 1816 1 B2 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 3 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
29 1817 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
30 1817 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
31 1817 1 B3 00 01 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 1
32 1818 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
33 8691 1 B3 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
34 8691 1 B3 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 4 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0
35 8691 1 B7 00 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #0 Bank Select MSB CC Value = 0
36 8691 1 B7 20 00 Control Change ($Bx) 8 CC Type = #32 Bank Select LSB CC Value = 0

I'm hoping that the CC value alternating between 0 and 1 means the banks are switching.
I don't have a keyboard with me to test it.

Hi Keith,
that MSB 1, is Bank change 1. Appears that it may finally be working for you

Thanks Rikki, I think a new install is definitely the way for me to go. My BIAB file is getting a bit crowded anyway - so it's a good chance to have a spring clean.

Looks like they issued a fix for upper bank issues today. Check latest update. 314

Yes, I noticed it this morning thanks Bob. I'm looking forward to trying it out when I get home.

... and I'm pleased to report that after trying a few songs the upper bank switches are performing correctly.
Thanks Team PG