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I'm sitting with an old songbook (I can't believe I just called something from 1980 old) entering a few Irish tunes in BIAB. The top of each sheet lists a tempo. For example I have a song in common time in which it indicates a dotted quarter = 96. How does that translate to BIAB tempo?
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On the lowermost row of the menu, the 4th window in from the left, you'll see a small window in which to type or "dial in" the number 96. If you need to change the tempo within the song, click on the bar in question, hit F5, then enter the new tempo in the second little window.
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Thanks Sam, but I know where the tempo control is -- that is not my question. Tempo in BIAB is in beats per minute (BPM). I was asking what would the BPM be if the sheet music gives the value of a dotted quarter note as 96?
I would also like to know how to calculate this in the future. The next song I am doing is a 3/4 tempo where a quarter note = 132
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Hi Robb,
If you are given the value of a dotted quarter note = 96, this most likely means the song is in a compound time signature (6/8, 9/8, 12/8); BIAB bases everything on a 4/4 template and massages that to create styles that sound 6/8, 3/4, etc.
Any metronome marking (MM) given for songs that have a quarter note as the base use, translate directly into BIAB: i.e. MM = BPM.
A dotted quarter note = 96 means that 96 dotted quarter notes are played in one minute; this is equal to 96 x 3 = 288 eighth notes in one minute; and this, in turn, equals 144 quarter notes in one minute. Therefore dotted quarter note = 96 is the same tempo as quarter note = 144. Seeing that BIAB bases styles on 4/4 (as mentioned above), putting the tempo to 144 is where I'd start. As I haven't tried this, I do not know how successful it will be. Using your ear to determine if the tempo will be the best solution as it's not always possible to easily equate compound time signatures (where the dotted quarter note is the base unit) to simple time signatures (where the quarter note is the base unit).
For the waltz, if the time signature is 3/4, this means that the quarter note is the fundamental unit (and not the dotted quarter note as above). Thus simply use the tempo given in BIAB.
Hope this gives you some food for thought,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Thanks Noel. I will try the new tempo when I get home from work.
Strange thing is that, although the song has a cut time feeling, this song is in common (4/4) time. The rhythm generally follows a dotted-half/quarter or dotted-half/eighth/eighth per measure pattern. There is not a single dotted quarter in the song.
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Hi Robb,
That's how compound time signatures work. For example, 6/8 (6 x 1/8-notes to a bar) is a compound double time where each beat (represented by a dotted 1/4-note) consists of 3 x 1/8-notes. That is a 6/8 time sig. only has 2 beats in a bar.
A common march pattern for the time sig. per bar is (beat 1 = 1/4-note + 1/8-note, and beat 2 = 1/4-note + 1/8-note).
I'm sure that there would be somewhere on the web that explains this much better than I can.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Actually, the tune is in 4/4. That is why the dotted quarter tempo threw me. Here is the first line from the book:  The tune is Fáinne Geal an Laeis, an old Irish air composed by the blind harpist Thomas Connellan in the 17th Century and as such is in the public domain.
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Hi Robb, The MM (dotted 1/4) = 96 has no meaning in the context of the time signature of 4/4. I've just had a listen to the song at the below link and this version sounds like 4/4 to me and the tempo is around 110 bpm. http://martindardis.com/fainne_geal_an_la_lyrics_chords.htmlNOTE: I'm not sure if you are aware of this but if you tap, in time to the music, using right-clicks on the "-" sign to the right of the tempo, BIAB will determine the BPM from your tapping. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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What I did to make it sound right was to half the durations
of the chords and set the tempo to around 80-85 (not to far
from half Noel's calculation). It doesn't sound bad at 96
Which was the tempo indicated without cutting the chords
durations. I tried both 8th and 16th based drums and the
8th seems to fit the rhythm better.
If someone could explain the theory behind why this worked,
I will read the explaination very carefully.
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Perhaps the dot on that sheet is a typo.
It would make sense with no dot there, quarter note = 96.
--Mac
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Mac, I think this may be true but I had to half the
chord durations for a tempo near 96 BPM to sound right.
My music theory has a few holes I'd like to fill.
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Rob what's the name of yer book?
I play a version of that...quite slow. It would be about 65 bpm the way I learned it.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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So far I've found 3 versions of it. 2 are 'fiddle'. One is 2/4 the others 4/4. A modern Irish History Tunebook would set it straight, they have sometimes 20 versions by different folk collected from various counties. It's no uncommon for a tune to pass from musician to musician and be adapted in the folk music sense. It makes no sense even to argue over timings etc.
An example of that that I relate very much to is a tune that I will croak tomorrow at sup, haggis in my belly and a brave attempt to get a fine single malt over the gums...the song would be "My heart's in the Highlands." The copy is not close..all the modern versions stray from the original, and who knows if that's accurate.
I gave my son the piper the my Historical Tunes of Ireland..books. I should look for a new one.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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I was just poking around in the metronome that comes in the latest 10-pak. You guys probably know about it. It's got various gizmos. Here's the Help section on the "Tempo Calculator."
"Tempo Calculator
This opens the Tempo Calculator dialog, which will automatically calculate the tempo needed to play a given number of bars in a certain length of time. If the Tempo Calculator is enabled, the metronome will always use this calculated tempo. The calculator will also tell you the number of bars played for a given tempo and duration, and how long it will take to play a given number of bars at a given tempo."
It's got several pre-loaded time signatures, and you can define your own, in 16th, 8th, 4tr, or half notes. The calculator honors any time signature you set.
FWIW. -Ron
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Quote:
Rob what's the name of yer book?
It is in Vol.3 of Ossian's Traditional Tunes of Ireland Series it was published in 1980 in Co. Cork., IE (not OSSIAN USA). I don't believe it is in print anymore but can't get to their web page
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BTW the wife and I conferred on the dotted 1/4 note and the conclusion was this:
If a 1/4 + 1/8 note = 100 then you have = 3 1/8th notes and at 96 tempo each is a value of 32.
Thus if you want to express the tempo in a 1/4 note 96-32= 64.
And we both think it looks like fudged 3/4 time, and like a lot of celtic stuff it has been done in both.
We then played 3 old Scottish airs attempting to out improv each other. I'll trick her and get my daughter to video that someday soon and post it to youtube. She hit me with the flute too. Right on the ear. Something about saying she had to get up early to take out the garbage before 7 a.m. Dang raccoons....they should be hibernating not digging in my garbage.
John Conley
Musica est vita
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Quote:
Mac, I think this may be true but I had to half the
chord durations for a tempo near 96 BPM to sound right.
Then I would jus consider both the dotted quarter and the BPM figure there to be a typo.
In these days of computer-generated charts, it is easy to surmise what could cause something like this to happen, maybe that given figure was "leftover" from the previous song and went unnoticed, or maybe someone really just made a blunder with it.
No matter, viewing the few bars you posted it looks to me like you could just enter as written into BB, pick a style that works for you and set the BB Tempo BPM block by ear to suit.
--Mac
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Hi John, I apologize for being contrary but with all due respect, your calculation is not quite correct. Because the note-value of a quarter note is smaller than the note-value of the dotted quarter note, it is not possible to have fewer quarter notes occurring in the same amount of time as dotted quarter notes if the overall time is to remain the same. Quote:
If a 1/4 + 1/8 note = 100 then you have = 3 1/8th notes and at 96 tempo each is a value of 32.
Thus if you want to express the tempo in a 1/4 note 96-32= 64.
Since tempo is "beats per minute", to re-map the tempo from one beat type to another, it is necessary to consider that number of different kinds of equivalent beat that occur in one minute and to work through the note type that is equal in each tempo. In this instance, the note type common to both is the eighth note.
A dotted quarter note at a tempo of 96 means that 96 dotted quarter notes occur within 1 minute.
So, since each dotted note contains three eighth notes, then there must be (3 x 96 = 288) 288 eighth notes that occur in 1 minute if 96 dotted quarter notes were played in 1 minute.
Now since it takes two eighth notes to make a quarter note, then that means that there must be (288/2 = 144) 144 quarter notes in minute.
Thus, the above tempo can be expressed a number of ways that are equivalent.
1) dotted quarter note = 96 beats per minute (if the dotted quarter note is the beat unit)
2) quarter note = 144 beats per minute (if the quarter note is the beat unit)
3) eighth note = 288 beats per minute (if the eighth note is the beat unit)
Basically, as the value of the beat note gets smaller, the equivalent tempo must increase because more of the smaller value notes are required to be played in the same amount of time as the larger note. The relationship between note value and tempo is an inverse one.
As example consider marching...
Let's say that in one minute, your left foot "walks" 20 times. This tempo could be written as "left foot = 20 walks per minute"
If we want to convert this to the walking of any foot, the right foot must have also "walked" 20 times if the that's what the left foot has done. Otherwise we wouldn't be marching. This means that the total number of "foot movements" have been 20 x 2 = 40
So a tempo of "left foot = 20 walks per minute" is equal to a tempo of "any foot = 40 walks per minute".
The measured length of time between "any" foot's movement is smaller than the measured length of time between "left foot only" movements. This is the inverse relationship that holds. As the time-value of the defining unit gets smaller, more of that unit must occur if the same amount of time is to be covered as defined by the larger unit.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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So, assuming a typo with the dotted quarter metronome marking what is the theory (or BIAB technicality) that explains why the song works in the indicated tempo when the chord duration is halved?
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Likely just coincidental.
I still think the entire marking on the sheet was just plain wrong information.
--Mac
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