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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2006
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OP
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 350 |
Maybe I'm missing something, but is is possible to convert a MIDI track to an audio track using a Real Track. The resulting track should be an audio version of the MIDI track with Real Track/Drums sounds. Not the DXi/VST/GS Wavetable routes/sounds---I know how to do that. The real Tracks sounds are just so much better than other DXi/VST synths that I have.
Is there any way to make a MIDI track an audio track via Real Tracks, preserving the original score of the MIDI track?
Paj
8^?
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RealBand
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I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
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RealTracks, and Real Drums as well, are not note by note products. They are 3 to 5 minute wave files recorded in a studio that are then cut up by the program into 1 to 2 bars sections and pieced back together in the track to match the bar, tempo, and chord structure of the song. In the latest version of the software version 2011 a new feature was added called "elastique" which is a time stretching engine to make the RTs and Rds work over a longer tempo map.
If you want Midi files to sound more like RTs you need to invest in a real good sample program like Kontact or Sampletank, or buy a hardware sampler or synth. There are a couple suggestions sold here in the hardware tab.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 350
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 350 |
Thanks for the quick responses.
I get the basic procedure---assembling a score from algorithms. I'm sure they're assembled in a buffer. . . from algorithms . . .hey, why not be able to just bypass the score-generating algorithms, use the score data that's already present in the track directly (not to drive a algorithmic engine), and use that data in the assembly process?
I have a variety of samplers---none of them work a quickly, sweetly and expresively as the 2011 version of real tracks.
I think that PG could be very, very close to expanding it's market.
I guess that I should move this posting to the wishlist section.
Thanks again,
Paj
8^)
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2003
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Real Tracks are just loops that get assembled end to end by a machine vs a person like in Acid or Audition.Pretty fancy the way it's done but still just loops. In fact you can buy Acid Loop libraries of drums and make your own Real Drums parts from those. I've done this a number of times. Not to hard really. There's a tutorial on this. Can't make your own RTs yet.Doubt you ever will.
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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The market for playing a track of MIDI data (in exact interpretation) is flooded; it's called synths and samplers. If you want exact MIDI data replication that is how it is done.
Realtracks are a whole 'nother animal. Part of the beauty is you get to see how various studio musicians (with the algorythm) would interpret the various styles and progressions. Some people worry the realtracks will sound stale. To me, music created by a single person with their own (exact) ideas for every part can become stale very quickly. One of my first thoughts when experiencing realtracks for the first time was "Wow! Now I can have the input from different musicians on an idea, instantly and with lots of variations!"
Some people look at the lack of control as a weakness, I see it as an opportunity to explore. Otherwise they would just be another synth/sampler concept. As they are they go to the next level.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Quote:
"Wow! Now I can have the input from different musicians on an idea, instantly and with lots of variations!"
+1 Well said.
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RealBand
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Joined: Aug 2006
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Last night i was working on a couple songs, trying to add a solo of either a sax or guitar, and it was sonding horrible. I open the chords window and went through the chords and simplfied them got rid of the crazy C7minsusaug#13th to the power of 9 chords for C G D structure regenerated the solos and they all sounded ten times better.
Sometimes even with RTs you need to clean up the song a bit first before generation. Once this is done you can get as Rharv is refering to the input of another player. I tease around about stuff like and now on lead guitar "so and so". which amuses me to no end.
The concept of having RTs play note for note keeps popping up, and is really nothing new. We have had that ability in samplers for ever. Samplers are live played notes recorded so that they are playable by midi. The complaint is that they do not sound as "real" as Rts, but if you note by noted them they would be no better. What makes sampled midi sound good is hard work. Volume, expression, panning, effects, and timing processing. Timing i the biggie to me, making it sound human. Choosing better samples is key.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 350
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 350 |
Quote:
The market for playing a track of MIDI data (in exact interpretation) is flooded; it's called synths and samplers. If you want exact MIDI data replication that is how it is done.
. . . The market is not flooded with good samplers and softsynths, as far as I can tell. Most are difficult-to-find-use-stock-and-maintain (not to mention pay for). It just seems to me that RT is close to beating most of them up---just by adding the option of removing the generation algorithm from the routine and directly interpreting data that's already there. Hey, hate me for liking PG's version more and suggesting a feature that streamlines and improves MIDI playback. I have more than a few thousand dollars tied up in samplers and samples here and I'm just impressed with the approach the PG is taking---and I see some other, albeit mundane, possibilities that could be handled and improved by using RealTracks.
Quote:
Realtracks are a whole 'nother animal. Part of the beauty is you get to see how various studio musicians (with the algorythm) would interpret the various styles and progressions. Some people worry the realtracks will sound stale. To me, music created by a single person with their own (exact) ideas for every part can become stale very quickly. One of my first thoughts when experiencing realtracks for the first time was "Wow! Now I can have the input from different musicians on an idea, instantly and with lots of variations!"
I couldn't agree more---I think we love the same woman here . . .
Quote:
Some people look at the lack of control as a weakness, I see it as an opportunity to explore. Otherwise they would just be another synth/sampler concept. As they are they go to the next level.
Chaos doesn't frighten me---I teach in an urban high school. It would be neat, though, to score your own track and have RT play it as scored, say, with an RT instrument that you don't have available or don't play. I don't think for a minute that RT is just another synth/sampler concept---I think it may be the best.
I will say that I always appreciate the quick and knowledgeable responses that I get in the PG forums. I love this software and wouldn't mind if it was all that I had to use.
Thanks again,
Paj
8^)
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RealBand
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Joined: May 2000
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Those who don't know what's under the hood will not understand why their Mini Cooper cannot be used to compete in a NASCAR race...
The aging MIDI standard can only accomplish so much, matter of fact there are so many parameters important to making music that are missing in action, its amazing enough what MIDI can accomplish as it is.
**The things that make the Realtracks sound so much better are inherent in being able to take entire phrases played by live (and outstanding!) musicians as a whole, intelligently placing them along a given timeline as defined by the chords and tempo. Break those up into single notes that can be manipulated and you are right back where it started - a MIDI sampler that cannot impart all those subtle details between the notes.**
Perhaps there will be some new technology come down the path that changes that. There might even be development going on somewhere as we type here. Or not. But IMO the future looks bright. Until then, we work with what we've got, not with what we might have tomorrow.
--Mac
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RealBand
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Quote:
It would be neat, though, to score your own track and have RT play it as scored
This would be extremely neat no doubt. What you're describing is the ability to take a prerecorded audio file and extract individual notes from it then have those notes play according to instructions via midi. This already exists. It's called Melodyne from Celemony. The basic program that can work with a single instrument or voice is around $200 while the full version that can extract individual instrument notes from a multitrack file is around $500. I'm sure that tech is all locked up with patents and copyrights. Would Celemony be willing to share that for a price and is PG willing to pay that price? Is it even possible to incorporate that into these programs? Who knows, it's a business decision.
The other point that Mac alluded to is the fact that when you break down a RT into an individual note, you lose all the neat articulations and phrasing the original player put into the recording and exactly which note would the program pick? In any given phrase there could be 5 or 6 Bb's all with slightly different tones if it's a horn or different hits if it's piano or guitar. That could get very tricky trying to get a collection of individual notes to blend together when they are taken from one prerecorded piece of music. Take a piano part for example. Say the part should sound at a medium hard velocity but the program grabbed notes from a soft passage and a hard rockin passage because that was where the notes needed were. That would sound like crap. This is why the big software synth/samplers are careful to match the sound of the notes that the synth will play and the velocity instructions sent via midi tells it what notes to use. Now you might say well, have the program take all the individual notes group them together by velocity and then use those according to the midi instructions. That is exactly what a good software synth does. Most of the big expensive ones use full killer prerecorded in the studio audio samples so now if you take it this far, why should PG reinvent the wheel? The big difference between Real Tracks and a midi synth is the phrases. Individual notes are already covered. That's the point Mac was making.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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RealBand
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Nope. No manipulation for me. PG has got this thing down to a science. It is a great band to play & sing along with.I am no longer flooded with the 'Oh Karaoke" comments. I now have a very unique sounding band.I do covers so for a writer it may be a different thing. For me I don't want to be able to tweak the thing till it sounds JUST like the record. Might as well by Karaoke tracks.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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