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Hi all. This query follows on from my previous post, "Editable Notation Mode - deleting notes" which wandered off topic. (my fault)
Here's the problem. Someone kindly explained that when using Editable Notation Mode it is possible to use the qwerty keyboard to record a rhythm, and then edit the note pitches.
The problem is that there is a delay between hitting the key, and getting the sound.
I'm using a laptop with onboard sound - which I think is Conexant - and no external devices. I dont know whats doing the midi synth - I guess some software somewhere.
I cant quite get my head round the technology here. I think that I'm creating a Midi track, and the delay occurs either because the midi synthesiser or its drivers are inadequate or incorrectly set, or the soundcard or its drivers arent right.
I've tried ASIO4ALL drivers, (which apparantly arent ASIO) but then I lose sound completely in BiaB, tho' all other sound still works. TRied turning off Win sounds, but no difference.
I also tried all sort of settings but no result. If I revert to MME settings, (which apparantly is WDM), I'm back where I started. Sound, but delayed.
If it turns out my kit is inadequate, well fair enough. Its just hard to believe its that tough to create a "realtime" MIDI track without latency.
If anyone can figure this out I'd be very grateful.
Running Win 7 Intel dual R T4300 4Gb RAM. Default BiaB installation.
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It sounds like latency to me. Maybe a different asio driver may help? If you have the notes entered, try the quantize function and see if it puts them in sync. If not, open the piano roll and you can drag them pretty quickly there. They will stick if it is on the melody channel or soloist channel. Those two do not rewrite when the play button is pressed.
Trax
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Here how this usually works-
The qwerty will only work with the default device (often MS GMsynth)
This has latency, but the latency is 'only while you are playing the notes in real time'.
So if you can ignore the sound coming late as you do it ( I often just turn it down) you can then get the track entered for rhythm.
Upon playback the latency should be accounted for (by buffers), so after entering the part, when you hit play it should be in time at that point. No need to slide around after.
The actual latency is caused byt the time it takes the computer to generate the sound uing MME drivers in real time. It is a weakness of the system, but should work even though it sounds late originally while playing.
This one of the strengths of ASIO, but I don't *think* the qwerty board will work with asio. I think it routed around differently.
Last edited by rharv; 02/04/11 03:47 PM.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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qwerty wizard works fine in realtime here on the laptopt using ASIO4ALL sound with VSC DXi synth. XP SP3 though.
Andrew is pursuing this issue on the other thread about the same problem with the OP now.
--Mac
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Hi, I've got qwerty working with mine, no delay using asio4all.. I had real hassles trying to get asio4all working on my dell win7 64 bit. Basically I had no sound when trying to use dxi or vsti softsynths. http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=286451&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1The problem I beleive was the laptop and the sharing of the audio device. I eventually worked out how to install Midi Yoke ( virtual midi cable ) into Win7, and it all works fine. It just worked better for me than the LoopB1 virtual midi cable.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
Yamaha sx900
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Thanks for these helpful comments.
Trax - payback turns out to be OK - its just the sound on recording thats out of sync - see below.
Robert - thanks for the clarity of your remarks. I found the sound latency so awkward I hadnt even thought about the effect this would have on playback. But as you say the playback timing is fine.
I couldnt quite work out how to turn down the recording track sound wihtout turning down master volume. Is this possible? Track vol control only seems to effect playback.
Mac - I'll look at the other thread.
Rikki - sounds like the same problem. I'll look at the Midi Yoke thing.
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Tommohawk,
You could also try the onboard gm synth for "recording" and then switch back to DXi for playback. That might help eliminate some latency? It won't sound great during the recording aspect, but maybe it will put the notes in sync? Try both MME & ASIO drivers that way. One of them *should* work with the onboard soundcard. Worth a try.
Trax
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hi Trax Quote:
Tommohawk,
You could also try the onboard gm synth for "recording" and then switch back to DXi for playback. That might help eliminate some latency? It won't sound great during the recording aspect, but maybe it will put the notes in sync? Try both MME & ASIO drivers that way. One of them *should* work with the onboard soundcard. Worth a try.
Trax
Not sure how to do that. I unchecked the "use VST/DxiSynth" option but this makes no difference.
Rikki - I read you older post re Midi Yoke - sounds like same Win 7/64 issue. I downloaded from MidiOX, but doesnt seem to help. I may not have the BiaB setting correct. How did you get it to work? Your thread ends with you giving up on Midi Yoke and using LoopB1 instead.
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Hi, no, not Midi Ox, "Midi Yoke" http://www.midiox.com/index.htm?http://www.midiox.com/myoke.htmI had to turn " UAC " completely down before installing. After installation I turned it back up. The program for designed for upto Win XP , not Vista or Win7 I was a bit nervous about doing that, but I was DESPERATE because I needed midi yoke for a couple of my other programs that I use ( not just for BIAB), without it, my One Man Band softsynth/software arranger setup would have been useless. I also created a restore point , just in case it didn't work & I had to unload it. I'm not very computer literate, so I wasn't sure what consequences turning down User Account Control might have. For me it's worked really well. Maybe worth checking with the guys about wisdom of turning down UAC & loading an XP program that wouldn't load otherwise, but I was desperate. Took me a while to find out how to do it. So just in case, Control Panel User Account & Family Safety User Account Change Password Change User Account Control Setting You'll get a couple of messages about having to turn off restart pc. I tried loop be 1,it did work , but I got a error message every time I turned on my laptop. That had me a tad concerned.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
Yamaha sx900
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User Account Control just helps prevent unwanted changes to your system, it will prompt (in varying degress) when a program wants to make a change or registry entry. Perfectly OK to turn it off if you *want* to make changes like install something in the first place.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Hi again. Seems to have lost one of my replies.
Rikki - I tried Midi Yoke, which I got from MidiOX website. Its installed OK, cos I can see options for it in the BiaB dialogue box. But if I select the Middi yoke options I still dont get any sound using ASIO4ALL.
What other settings did you use? I followed you other thread, but at the end you seemed to have given up on Midi Yoke, and used LoopB
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Hi Rharv, thank you for that. It was a brand new laptop at the time & I wasn't familiar with Win7 at all. Good to know I didn't do something reckless. Quote:
User Account Control just helps prevent unwanted changes to your system, it will prompt (in varying degress) when a program wants to make a change or registry entry. Perfectly OK to turn it off if you *want* to make changes like install something in the first place.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
Yamaha sx900
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Hi Tommohawk,
I am using Midi Yoke. I installed Loop Be1, initially, but when I kept getting the error message, I uninstalled & went thru loading Midi Yoke.
Options
Midi Audio Setup
No Midi Input ( I sometime do connect a keyboard)
Midi Out - Midi Yoke 1
Tick Use VST DXI Synth
I've got a few, but I quite like Coyote WT which came with my BIAB Download.
Audio Settings
Audi Driver Drop Down Choose "Asio"
Click Audio Drives Icon Choose "Asio4All"
My Output Port I choose Speakers 1+2
Click Asio driver Control Panel
Latency Compensation In/Out 0
Buffer Offset 0ms
Tick Always Resample 44.1....
Asio Buffer Size = 512 samples
The Above works for me.
WDM Device List
IDt High definition Audio Codec is the one that works for me.
Haven't got a clue what all the above means , but it works for me.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
Yamaha sx900
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Hello tommohawk, Try ASIO4ALL again, and see if you can get it working - this is probably your best bet and there are few systems that it doesn't work on.  When you try to use ASIO4ALL, do you get a message from Band-in-a-Box that it is "not connected" because of the GS Wavetable? If so, try selecting 'No MIDI/Sound Output', and then closing/re-opening Band-in-a-Box. In the ASIO4ALL window, how do your devices show up - does it indicate a problem? (i.e. is there an "X" or "Beyond logic" symbol?) There is a description of the symbols in the ASIO4ALL PDF manual. 
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Right. Got somewhere - but not sure how. I ran through bothe the latest ideas posted above from Rikki and Andrew, but I'm afraid neither thing worked.
BUT as I was busy copying down images to post I suddenly noticed a different option had opened up in the BiaB ASIO drivers dialogue box (ie the 2nd image in Andrew's post) that wasnt there before.
On the right hand side, under "output drivers port" the new option is:
(2.3) HD audio output 1 + HD audio output 2.
Once I selected that, everything worked fine. But I couldnt figure out what had happened to open that option. In the interests of science and all that, I played around with things to lose that 2nd option - I think by going back to MME setting, and then tried to figure out what prompts it. BUT I'm afraid I cant figure that out. Somehow that option appears, and when it's selected everything works fine. With midi yoke, without it, with various other settings - its all suddenly lovely.
Sorry I cant be more precise, cos it might help someone else. If I figure out any more I'll come back to this thread and post again.
I tried posting pics but it wouldnt happen.
thanks to Rikki and all for the advice,
Cheers Tom
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Hi Tom,
that's brilliant. At least you're up & running.
Most of my old software that I managed to get working in Win7 was by trial & error.
I much preferred my XP system. haahaa
p.s.
Wish I knew how to get those screen shots up too, save a lot of typing. As they say, a picture is worth a 1,000 words.
best wishes
rikki
BIAB 2025
Korg PA5X
Yamaha sx900
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nnnnnyyyyyyaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhh.
Too good to be true of course. I now have BiaB running nicely, but when I switch to Mixcraft that wont run. At least not at the same time as BiaB.
If I open Mixcraft first it runs fine, but then when I open BiaB I get the message "error creating ASIO buffer". And pretty much vice versa ie if I open Biab first thats OK, but then when I open Mixcraft I get a sound card error message.
This is hopeless, because I want to use the 2 apps together.
Any more ideas anyone .... please?
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You can not run ASIO on two programs at the same time.
Switch one to MME or WDM drivers
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Thanks Bob.
Well that probably explains it - except that in Mixcraft I have 3 driver options Wave, ASIO and Wave RT. And I have Wave ticked - so shouldnt be using ASIO. The ASIO control panel doesnt open up, so it shouldnt be using it.
Even more strange if I open Mixcraft and do select ASIO, I get no sound even without BiaB running.
I can switch Biab backk to MME(WDM) - but then I'm stuck with my latency problem that i started this thread with.
The workaround for me I guess is leave BiaB with ASIO when recording, then if I need to open Mixcraft at the smae time, switch Biab to WDM. Bit of a pain though.
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Many of users have developed this habit as the working solution. Switching drivers is prtty quick and painless here.
I wonder if 'wave' selection uses whatever Windows has for the default, which may indeed be the ASIO drivers... wish you luck on a better solution, that was the only idea I had.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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