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Quote:
When all tracks are done, I export them as wav files and move to Reaper for mixing and mastering.
Dear Noel,
One question - could you choose to export a song created as you describe as a midi file, instead of wav files? In other words, when regenerating a single track that has a RealTrack instrument on it, does that regeneration result in changed midi data for the track, such that if you were to export that track in midi format, import it into Reaper and assign a new VSTi to it (such as Kontakt), you would be able to preserve the performance but use a different instrument to render that performance?
Thanks!
Brett
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MIDI is MIDI, realtracks are audio
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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So the audio in a RealTracks file is not triggered by midi events? I thought that BIAB generated the song with midi data, and if you are using RealTracks that midi data is used to trigger actual audio of actual musicians playing the notes generated by BIAB. Is this not correct?
Last edited by bharris; 02/08/11 03:10 PM.
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Just the 'play' button is the only trigger.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Real Tracks are recorded by live musicians at a certain BPM. BIAB then stretches or compresses the audio time wise (if needed) to match the BPM of your song. It also changes the pitch (if needed) to match the key of your song. Nothing to do with MIDI.
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'Au contraire!' ... or so I think.
Look at the RealBand 2011 video at about 11:40. You'll see that there is now an underlying midi track ... or probably more acurately put ... parallel midi track for at least some RealTrack instruments.
Presumably it shows the transposed melody lines generated from the chord/ arrangment structure used in/ by the song to generate the real track.
So you apparently can have your midi and eat it, too. If the midi track is there, you surely must be able to route it to a soft or hard synth for doubling or export the midi file for any other purpose.
While the underlying audio was recorded by real musicians in real time ... there has to be a mechanism to tell the realtrak 'engine' what key, tempo and chord progression to use in compiling the realtrack as used for a particular song. My money is that the front end ... where you enter your chords a la BIAB, is midi giving those messages to the compiling or generating engines for the audio.
Either they've back tracked and used something like Melodyne DNA to extract the midi fromt the RealTracks, or they knew the original scores for the different variations and as the program transposes them for the realtack, it generates a new midi file reflective of exactly how the midi messages tell the RealTrack generating engine to compile ... as in which variation to choose at any particular chord transition of the original song.
How else could it be?
Prado
Last edited by Prado; 02/08/11 04:48 PM.
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The midi that is generated by the Realtrack is so that there is a "chart" that you can view, and learn from. Not so that it generates the RT. This feature was added recently.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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I understand it is a new feature. MIDI is a programming language that can be used for many things besides triggering sounds.
However, even before when you entered chords or imported a *.sgu or *.mgu file with midi data ... that data still must have been the front end 'trigger' to cause the compiling of the RealTracks. There's not a little man in the program who goes and gathers the data after each chord you enter.
If you look at the midi in the track at about 11:40 in the video you see that it looks like it's showing a lot more midi note data than simply chords you'd see in a chart.
There also seems to be notation windows that follow the RealTrack with the blinking red notes ... or in the fret board you can see double stops. That looks like a lot more than a chart.
Prado
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Quote:
I understand it is a new feature. MIDI is a programming language that can be used for many things besides triggering sounds.
However, even before when you entered chords or imported a *.sgu or *.mgu file with midi data ... that data still must have been the front end 'trigger' to cause the compiling of the RealTracks. There's not a little man in the program who goes and gathers the data after each chord you enter.
If you look at the midi in the track at about 11:40 in the video you see that it looks like it's showing a lot more midi note data than simply chords you'd see in a chart.
There also seems to be notation windows that follow the RealTrack with the blinking red notes ... or in the fret board you can see double stops. That looks like a lot more than a chart.
Prado
RealTracks with an "N" in the Chart column of the Assign RealTracks to Track dialog can display notation showing the notes that are being played. Some Guitar RealTracks also show tab, and accurate on-screen fretboard guitar display to show what is being played on guitar.Most RealTracks display notation, i.e. RealCharts, showing the notes that are being played. To see which instruments have RealCharts, visit the Assign RealTracks to Track dialog and sort column 11, "Chart." Instruments with an "N" or "Gt" in this column have RealCharts.
- Instruments with "Gt" in the Chart column have RealCharts with accurate guitar tab and on-screen guitar fretboard display.
- If the instrument is Acoustic Piano and there is an "N" in the Chart column, the instrument has a Jazz piano RealChart.
- The various other instruments with an "N" (Pedal Steel, Slide Guitar, Resophonic, Trumpet, Alto Sax, Tenor Sax) have RealCharts in standard notation.
The RealCharts can be saved to MIDI files or with Band-in-a-Box songs (MGU).
I don't know if MIDI has anything to do with the creation of the Real Tracks in a song but I am sure a man or gal is playing it. 
Brian
BIAB 2026 Ultrapack- Fender Studio Pro 8, Windows 11, Mac Mini M4 with Logic Pro 11, Melodyne Studio, Luna Pro
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Thanks, Brian.
It's not a question of whether someone is really playing it originally at some tempo and key, printed right down to an audio file.
The questions are: to what extent the front end of the compiling for any given song uses midi to tell the ... for lack of better language ... the RealTracks 'engine' what part of the audio to select, time stretch and pitch shift to come up with the RealTrack? (Samplers triggering real audio to midi messages are nothing new. I'm sure the RealTracks 'engine' is built upon that concept.)
The other question would be (and thanks again for your above helpful amplification and direction!) how the chart comes out 'right' after you have selected a key, tempo and progressions? I think obviously, there must be ongoing compiling of an underlying data set ... otherwise there would be no way for the program to show you the data synced to your song creation.
Prado
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Admittedly, I was doing some guessing, based on many years of programming experience (but not BIAB type). I haven't looked at the video, so I can't speak to that. However, I still think the RT generation can be done w/o any MIDI related messages to an "engine". All the info needed is in the chord chart window. If you listen to the raw RT WMA files, I think you'll find each "set" plays over the same sequence of chord changes at a fixed BPM. Therefore, appropriate playing for any chord in the song key can be found to fit the chord chart. I'm not saying I'm right, but I could be. Only PG Music knows for sure.
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@HogTime ... I love a good discussion ... even when I'm blowin' smoke!
I'm going with 'Occam's Razor' ... the simplest explanation that could fit the facts.
Why would you take a midi auto arranging program's files (which I'm pretty sure are only 'proprietary' midi with a diffent file extension and a few other tricks), convert that to some new code to compile audio from a virtual sampler (which is what RT is) and then develop some more new code now to compile midi data for charts in RT?
Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to use the same 'front end' midi data and then only trigger your virtual sampler 'compiler' with it?
But! You may be right.
Prado
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Quote:
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RealBand does not have the TC Helicon harmony feature UNLESS you also have purchased and installed PowerTracks. See the feature comparison chart, here: http://www.pgmusic.com/salesfaq1.htm#6
Matt, that got changed with RB 2011. It now has this feature without power tracks.
Brian
Good to know, thanks.
Do you have a source for your info please?
PG Music's site chart still says it does not include this, and there is no mention of this in the announcement of RealBand by Peter Gannon, here: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=297201&an=0&page=0#Post297201
nor in the most recent update, here: http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=306777&an=0&page=0#Post306777
[I cannot see any reason anyone would buy PowerTracks now if this difference is eliminated.]
RealBand 2011 – 50 cool new features!
RealBand 2011 is more powerful and easier to use than ever, and now it sounds better than ever too.
We′ve made big improvements to the sound of the RealTracks with a new élastique Pro V2 time stretching and pitch transposition engine so that they sound more natural over a much (3x) wider range of tempos. And we′ve made the size of the RealTracks much smaller, so that they now only take up 30% of the space that they used to. The new version will shrink the size of your existing RealTracks too, so that you can free up lots of space on your drive.
You can now have RealTracks styles changes within a song, and generate Soloist Medleys – solos that play RealTracks instruments during the solos. Soloists can now have a "bluesy" setting.
RealCharts have been added, so you can see, and print, notation for the RealTracks you generate.
There are lots of improvements to the StylePicker, including additional columns of information, new filters, auto-generated memos, and the ability to use Band-in-a-Box MultiStyles (up to 16 substyles) with RealTracks.
There are new MIDI and audio transpose options for key signature changes, replacing the previous Yes/No dialog for MIDI transpose. Tempo changes are easier too, with improved audio time stretching from the new élastique Pro V2 time stretching and pitch transposition engine.
You can now generate MIDI solos and MIDI harmonies, and also add audio harmonies to audio tracks using the built-in audio harmonies feature in Band-in-a-Box and PowerTracks Pro Audio.
Info on Realband
I don't see a real need for myself to use Power Tracks instead of Real Band
Brian
Thanks again. I still cannot find anything in writing that says RealBand without PowerTracks has the TC Helicon harmony feature. Would you be so kind as to point me to that info?
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Quote:
Wouldn't it be a lot simpler to use the same 'front end' midi data and then only trigger your virtual sampler 'compiler' with it?
If that were the algorithm, I should think there'd be notation for all RTs, since every style has midi patterns defined, whether or not a RT is assigned to a part.
EDIT - Correction, obviously when a part is undefined for a style, there're no midi patterns for that part. But a RT can still be generated for it. Which I think makes the same point I was shooting for 
EDIT2 On the other hand, it does not appear that a RT will generate if styles are completely disabled. Which maybe weakens my point.
You guys are discussing the most interesting question: how do they do it? And you're both right. We don't know, and they ain't saying.
BTW: new patch out.
-Ron
Last edited by rkl122; 02/09/11 06:19 AM.
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Matt I cannot find anywhere in exact text about not having to have Power Tracks to do audio harmony anymore. But I think I just tried it out on the right click menu on a audio track and it was there. I do not have PT installed on my system so my guess is that it either pulls it from BIAB or just a new feature in 2011. We have had discussions on this topic going back in december. December Thread We might just call it a easter egg I suppose. Brian
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If my recollection is correct, satff stated it was available now.
They sure ain't publicized it much though.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Right, as I mentioned, it is specifically not the case as per PG Music's chart.
I don't recall talking about that in the beta testing, or I would not have asked for someone to explain it. Thanks, Bob and Brian.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Prado,
The way notation charts for RealCharts works is that a MIDI chart is made of the original RealTrack raw recording. This was originally done by humans, one note or phrase at a time, then Pitch-to-MIDI programs were implemented, but still the need for human intervention to correct things here and there, sometimes more here than there (GRIN) as it is rather easy for fast passages and the like to overwhelm most of the available softwares that attempt to do that. Then along came Melodyne, which is hands down the best program at Audio-to-MIDI conversion.
To hear the "raw" realtrack file, simply look in the realtracks folders and play any one of the .wma or .wav realtracks file using the Media Player.
But the converters to do that do not reside inside BiaB. Just the painstakingly created original MIDI chart that corresponds to certain of the RealTracks. That's why not all of the RealTracks support MIDI notation - there are a goodly amount that were created *before* notation for RealTracks were added as a feature.
You should try exporting one of the Realtracks' MIDI notation and see how it plays in your DAW using your chosen synths.
First thing you will likely have to do is change all the note velocities to something other than zero in order to hear them. And don't expect them to sound exactly like the realtrack they are used to notate, there are likely plenty of places where note durations may be different from what was actually played (yet long enough to notate correctly) and other factors as well that may not make them desirable for use in performance.
That said, give it a try, you may discover something or some combination that sounds good and as Duke Ellington once quipped, "If it sounds good it IS good!"
--Mac
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Thanks Mac. Sweat, consternation and Melodyne it is then.
And thanks for the tips on 'zero velocity.' I'm sure it would have stumped me for a bit had I thrown those files in my DAW without looking carefully.
I submit there still is some midi compiling going on with he RT charts ... apparently using the chord information to transpose the charted passages to the proper scales for the key changes for any RT that has charts.
I also thought it was interesting when I read somewhere on the forum here that you get better results by simplifying the chord structures ... apparently letting the RTs 'stretch out,' as opposed to doing a lot of dinking and dunking with fast changes.
I'm still convinced there is a virtual sampler under the hood that takes the chordal and tempo info for a particular run of beats or bars in the same key signature, uses that to select the best matching file and then tempo and pitch shifts it accordingly ... a process continued until all the chords are addressed.
Longer passages, i.e., fewer chord changes, would let the player work the phrase ... since presumably every sample always starts playing from the beginning any time it is triggered. Time to brush up on my chord simplification substitution.
Time to take out the credit card.
Prado
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Last Chance! The Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® Special Ends Today (May 31, 2026) at 11:59pm PDT!
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With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
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Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
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