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RB 10.5
1. I generated a piano midi track from one of the library tracks in RB
2. I then selected a plugin VST instrument to change the GM/Edirol piano patch
3. The new VST plugin (Edirol Orchestral) has 1 - 16 patches providing different virtual instruments.
4. I wanted to use patch 5, trumpets. Selection is done by changing the channel number in RB to 5.
5. When I press start the track jumps back to patch 2 - every time. I can change it back to 5 after the track starts playing, but, every time it starts from the begining it jumps to 2.
I have studded and tried changing the Event Log but there is no Control Code showing that could explain why this is happening. There is no MIDI data that I can see at the very start of the track that could cause the jump. Even after re-generating the jump remains.
What is happening and how can I ensure the correct patch is selected without jumping back to 2 every time it starts?
Thanks
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RealBand
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As stated above you seem to have patch change numbers & midi channel numbers confused.Each midi track has to be set to a different channel number. That way when you choose patches on a track it'll only affect that track.
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RealBand
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You probably have another track set to MIDI channel 5 that has a program change message value 2
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Sorry to say, not confused with the channel and patch numbers. In the Edirol Orchestra plugin the instrument patches for the orchestra "section" corrispond to the channel number. In other words, if I want the Brass section to play I need to go onto midi channel number 3, then I can select a subset patch from the Brass section for say, trumpet.
I thought like you at first it was a simple midi channel cross talk, but, alas no. I even tried reducing to just 1 track set to channel 0. On the plugin this should be Wind section. As soon as I pressed play the patch jumped to 2 which is the String Section (patch 5).
What is controlling the selection? It is obviously a control code at the very begining of the midi event list, but I cannot see this anywhere. It only happens at the begining. If I start the track halfway through it stays on the patch selected indication it is not midi channel dependant.
It's certainly got me completly baffled, lest of which is I can't use the plugin as I had hoped.
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RealBand
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Did you open the event list to actually look for a program change at the beginning? (Look at every track, it could be on any of them)
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Being that the module is set up with different channels for different instruments,weird, could it be the module itself defaulting to that patch. Try to insert a program change yourself in the event list for the patch you want..
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RealBand
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Joined: Mar 2008
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@rharv - I must admit I didn't look at any of the other tracks events. Could an event from another track effect the events on the one I'm using? I assumed that each track had its own events list.
I'll take a look and get back as soon as poss with an answer. (I sure hope we'er onto something here)
@silvertones - now here is another strange thing.......I did try inserting a control change at the begining, just to see what would happen.......and it seemed get completely ignored by the plugin.
I wonder if only certain plugins are responsive and "obey" to the event list. (sounds darft, but you never know).
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RealBand
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I still think you're confused. This thing is a 16 part mutitimbral software module. It's just like any Roland HW module. It has a performance mode. Each part of this performance is assigned a MIDI Channel #. Within each channel you can choose different patches.
If channel #5 in the Edirol is trumpets you'd set RB MIDI Channel to Channel 5. If you want PATCH 6 within that Trumpets category you select PATCH 6 for that track.There is absolutly no way that the MIDI CHANNEL in RB can change. There is no MIDI parameter for that. The only thing that can change is the patch.
In summary the track you created should be CHANNEL#5 & PATCH # 6 (or whatever)
This thing is pretty much the same as the TTS-1 but geared toward orchestral sounds. Same layout & operation.
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RealBand
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Each track does have its own event list, but a patch change (or any other MIDI event) can be on any track; tracks can have multiple midi channels on them.
Not preferred, but they can.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Bob,
Look closely at his first post. he says he sets the track to Channel #5 but then it reverts back to channel #2. Not Patch #5 to Patch #2.Thus my comment about the confusion.
Channel assignment to tracks is not something that is changeable via MIDI.This thing as i said is just like the TTS-1. 16 tracks that are assigned Midi channels 1 through 16. Each Track/channel has it's own set of patches.
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John are you sure? I send channel assignments to Voice works, and always have it send on channel 13 it seems to always work for me. But maybe me dum dum!
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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RealBand
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I have seen strange things in my day, John. A petch change on a track that is on one midi channel and the rest of the track is on another ... someone goofs, or a glitch happens somewhere.. just something to check.
Channel number five may have a patch change on it that is accepted by the synth; just because they recommend a certain patch/channel setup (meaning the synth has a default patchmap program setup) doesn't mean it won't respond to patch change messages, and I would hope that it did!
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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You guys still aren't seeing it.H's saying the MIDI CHANNEL # that is assigned to the RB track is changing.
Last edited by silvertones; 02/15/11 04:34 AM.
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If a Channel assignment change was placed somewhere down the timeline past the beginning, there could easily exist that problem where the OP's channel change is indeed on the track, but ahead of the original channel assignment, which did not get deleted.
That would mean that as the transport starts rolling, the OP's channel assignment is sent, but soon thereafter the original is sent, changing it back to that.
The MIDI Event List and use of filters to see only Channel assignments is the place to check the entire MIDI file for such - and often is the case that it must be checked on all tracks in a MIDI file as there just may be a "rogue" assignment for a channel hiding on another track somewhere but coded to send the change to another track's channel. Or patch, for that matter.
Sometimes confusion also results because of the *DEFAULT* MIDI synth selection in Prefs, which will be used unless and until the user RightClicks on the Trackname area and selects another synth for that particular track, as well.
--Mac
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RealBand
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Quote:
You guys still aren't seeing it.H's saying the MIDI CHANNEL # that is assigned to the RB track is changing.
No, he used the word patch, you are assuming he meant channel.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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RealBand
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Quote:
4. I wanted to use patch 5, trumpets. Selection is done by changing the channel number in RB to 5.
5. When I press start the track jumps back to patch 2 - every time. I can change it back to 5 after the track starts playing, but, every time it starts from the begining it jumps to 2.
He seems to be getting the terms intertwined.He says he wants patch 5 so he changes the channel to ccchannel 5. Then the patch goes back to 2.
Does the RB track stay on CHANNEL #5 but the sub Patch changes or is he saying that the RB Track CHANNEL changes. I can't tell.
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Quote:
John are you sure? I send channel assignments to Voice works, and always have it send on channel 13 it seems to always work for me. But maybe me dum dum!
You send PATCH assignments. or more properly called PROGRAM CHANGES, to Voice Works on MIDI CHANNEL 13.
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RealBand
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No actually i send both patch assignments, and channel assignments in the VW track. I tell it what channel, patch, key, no. of voices, on/off data, and so forth. I leave nothing to doubt. I always start with an off signal, and end with an off signal so that the harmony will never stay on for the start of the next song. Kind of redundant but safe.
I guess that the channel is also very redundant, since the track sends that but i make darned sure.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Robh,
You said you send this all on Channel #13. RB is not telling VW what channel to listen to.You've told it to in the setup.Now it listens to channel #13 for all of it's SYSTEM COMMON MESSAGES & SYSTEM EXCLUSIVE MESSAGES that are either coming from a controller or a sequencer like RB.
Some vocal processors although for listening to 2 different MIDI Channels. One for the Chords and One for everything else.
I don't want to hijack this thread any longer with this.I'll bow out.
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